256 - Last ep before baby! What pregnancy has been like…

Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help online creators like you build a calm business. One that's predictable, profitable, and peaceful. We're your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an unboring business coaching program, and Teachery , an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well-being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.

Alright, cinnamon rollers. That's you. Let's get into the show. Hello, and welcome to our podcast.

Gosh. We do we remember how to

This is our podcast. When do you think the last time a podcast episode went up?

I just looked at it. It was, like, five weeks ago. It was, like, I think it was the launch recap, if I'm not mistaken.

It was the launch recap for sure. It was July 10. As of recording this, it's August 12.

Yikes.

So, you know, it's not too bad. I mean, we've gone on longer stretches of not podcasting.

But we didn't we didn't really say that we were Yeah.

It was a little bit of like a a standard Internet entrepreneur does a launch and then just disappears. But like

Which we hate doing. Like, we never wanna do that. I will say to just pramble a little bit and catch everybody up on, like Sure. Life Let's has happened. If I recall correctly, a big part of us taking a break was also this was aligning with the serve the celebration of life service for my dad

Yes.

Who passed away, in case you're just joining us. And so we were like, this is not the most important thing right now. It was stressful. We were planning. It was obviously, you know, I was in the middle of grief and hard.

I I feel like I didn't know this because, I mean, I've of course had people close to me pass away before, but no one as close as like a parent. Yeah. But I didn't really know before how I felt about like funerals or like services or stuff like that. I will say my experience has been that, though it was stressful to plan because the kids were the ones planning it, it was a very beautiful, like

Way to celebrate someone.

Way to celebrate a person, and it did create, like, a container for, like, all this grief that I just was in the middle of processing. And it was so lovely to see how many of his, like, friends and people from his life showed up and, like, said kind things to my siblings and I.

You watched it from afar. So we watched the couch on a YouTube stream.

We watched on a livestream and just sobbed, like Yeah. As expected. But I it was it was really beautiful, I would say.

I think so too. Does it change any of your thoughts or feelings about my request of my celebration of life service that I have always told you about?

Yes. I've told you. Jason has a very particular request about his service that includes some sort of Viking bow and arrow Uh-huh. Animal pirate.

You know that it's just due.

You you want

something If we're around a lake or a body of water of any kind, could be the ocean. Yeah. I want I want my body to be in, like, a wooden boat. Yep. I want that wooden boat to head out to sea.

Yep. And I want an archer with a lit flame to be you to hit the boat, light it on fire, and we all celebrate me. And if there's like rice lanterns that erupt as, you know, I'm a a flame and I'm going Okay.

To for everyone listening, the rice lanterns are new.

Yeah. Just I thought right

now. For people Also rice paper lanterns is

that. Yes, course.

Not rice lanterns. Of course. Yeah. Has it changed my view of that? Yeah.

Absolutely not.

You're going absolutely not.

I'm going you're not you can't have that. Wow. This is news to me. I should ask you, has it changed your thought on that at all?

Because I want it even more.

No, Jason. You've seen how hire stressful it

a party planner to help.

You can hire a party planner

I'm dead.

Pay for them. You need to do some I'm dead in this You

need to

some planning.

You just I think the difference is here is obviously, like, the family took care of your dad's celebration of life. So it was like a bunch of stressful things. All you need to do is just tell a person my wishes, you know? And then we're good to go.

Whatever you prepare ahead of time for me

is what you

get.

Listen, I'll put a Canva presentation together. You can pass that along to an expert.

Great. Perfect.

And they'll do it. Again, though, you have an important part of this, and that is?

The archery.

You have to shoot the arrows.

Yeah. That's so mean that you, from the grave, just wanna watch me fail with, like, a fire. You know how much I'm scared of fire.

A little bit of practice goes a long way. I think it's gonna be so cool when you hit it first shot, and everyone's gonna celebrate it.

I'm at the archery range. People are like, hey. So are you just, like, just getting into archery? No, I need to practice for my husband's season. Oh, he

passed away? No, no,

no, no, No,

no, no.

We're hoping he lives a long life, but

I just gotta get

I'm good at really bad at archery, so we need to start early. Yeah. Okay, if you can't tell, the way that we have processed the past month is just through a little

bit Love it, love it. Of

A lot of laughs. It has helped us to just, like, you know, laugh our way through the pain. A very,

yeah, very difficult.

And a very difficult time. And if you knew my dad, he would love this conversation. He be

so happy. He he would be so mad if we were just, like, saying, like, kind things and just being boring. Like, it's not at all

his fault. Was he was a super funny, super irreverent dude. Yeah. And I miss him a ton.

Your dad was a dude. There's not a lot of, like, dads. You could be like, oh, that's a dude.

He was a dude.

Your dad

was a dude. For sure.

Not to move on, that's some bad stuff. I was

gonna Segue.

Let let everybody know, Caroline, as of recording this, is thirty six weeks and two days pregnant.

Yeah. And I just want just a couple quick words about the third trimester.

If if anybody listened to our second trimester episodes where it comes

like My god. This? Second trimester. What's up? I was like, what?

Like, it's hard. No. I'm just kidding. It was not easy. But second trimester, as as many people note, I know this is not true for everyone.

Yeah.

But, yeah, we were just like firing on all cylinders, feeling great. The energy was back. All think good. Turned a corner into the third trimester, and boy, did it escalate.

Really changes.

Yeah. I will say it's it's gotten a lot harder just to exist in my body, I will say. And that's even like I'm like super lucky. Like, many third trimester symptoms I do not have. I keep finding new ones that people are like, Oh, you know, like, when your like, hands and feet swell up, and I'm like but, like, that sounds terrible.

Yeah.

Like, hey, when you get varicose veins. And I'm like, what's happening there? Yeah. I You do feel very lucky, but I

have entered the third trimester Tartaruga stage.

We are in the Tartaruga stage. Tartaruga means turtle in

Portuguese.

Portuguese. And, yeah, the the whole, like, you can't bend at the waist at all. Yeah. Like, second trimester is getting harder. Third trimester is like, no, no, no.

You can't you actually can't use your ab muscles. And, like, every like, just flipping over side to side is difficult. And I just, like I have to apologize to pregnant women everywhere because, like, I just didn't know. And I'm sure every person says that when they go through it. But, like, I just didn't know.

I was like, hey, hey, you're being a little dramatic. Like, just flip over. It's like, no.

You can't?

Your body doesn't work You the same can't. It's very weird having an alien inside your body because now she's big enough to where it's like, it's not like a cute little flutter kick anymore. It's like full on elbow Karate. Karate.

Yeah.

And but but I will say, like, the flip side of that, which is very fun, is it definitely makes it more real and, like, easier to connect to her and, like, who she is because I'm like, oh, you're big enough now that I can, like, picture where your body parts are, you know?

I can feel them on

my I can feel them, like, on my parts of my body. Yeah. Before, it was just kinda like, oh, yeah, like, there's some there's a baby inside me. Now, I'm like, oh, I can, like, talk to you and say hi to you because, like, you are, you wake up in the morning and you're fully you have a full body.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that part's kinda cool. And, like, they go from, like, whatever, like, two pounds to, like, she's, like, six pounds right now.

Mhmm.

And I'm, oh, six pounds? You're, like, a baby.

Yeah. It's full baby. The second It's a little baby, but it's a full baby.

I'm like, how are you inside my body? I don't understand.

And then she has to get out, just FYI. Speaking of getting out, as of this last week, our last appointment with our doctor, we have an induction date. So we because of your two blood disorders, we essentially have to have a planned induction date. A

a medically necessary induction. So not just an elective induction, but if that's your thing, then that's thing.

I know. We really wanted to have the, like, we're in the grocery store and your water breaks and we get to, like, you know, rush

She really wanted the drama.

Yeah. And then, like, I'm vlogging the whole thing, and it's like, guys, what's up? Like, you knew it was gonna happen. Yeah. We're we're not we're not gonna have that situation.

Which I think Unless she unless she comes early. Unless This

is true.

Unless she shows up early Yes. Which is not off the table.

Right. But but, yeah. We I mean, for two people who love planning, there could not be really a better situation where it's like, this is the date. So, like, everything ready by then.

But I'm a little bit like, induction is not like, I know a lot of people prefer to to go, like, the spontaneous route because

What if I can

stop the store? Your body's ready. Like your cervix is ready. You are do you know, the baby has released hormones that say like, I'm ready to go out, which is crazy, by the way.

Yeah. Very.

Like, my lungs are developed, like, see you. Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense to me. However and like, in doc with induction, you do have, like, bigger chance of, like, interventions and stuff like that. However, I will say the flip side of that is from the beginning, I knew my doctor literally from, like, a six week our six week appointment was like, just so you know, for these conditions, like, we almost always recommend a medically necessary induction.

Here are the reasons for that. And so I had already, like, mentally prepared. There was no, like, disappointment on that. So then I just started focusing on all the positives, and I was you get to not be, like, crazy stressed going into the hospital. You get to plan around the date.

Like, so I'm trying to look at all the positives and not like Yeah. Oh, boy. Like, probably gonna have to have Pitocin, and that's

Yeah. I mean, it just this is kind of how we go through life, though, especially me. It's like but you can't change it. Like, you can't just decide to be like, well, screw my blood conditions. I'm just gonna do it my way.

It's like, no, you're not. I'm I'm not saying that to you. I'm just I'm just saying in general, like, that's risky. That's, like, putting you and the baby at risk. And so it's like, no.

Like, this is just the reality of what our journey looks like. And so Yeah. We just have to celebrate that as best we can.

It's just been our mantra through this whole thing is, like, roll the punches. Yeah.

It's kinda like our travel year. Just It

is very much like our travel year.

You know? Like, you just you never know what you're gonna get at an airport in Croatia, you know? And it's just like, you show up and be like, whatever happens happens. If I need to go in the back and I'm getting strip searched, that's just what I had to do today, you know? But I I wanted to see Split, so, like, here I am.

Weird way that was, like, good preparation in

The traveling year? Yeah. Oh, 100%. Because I think

Dodging uncertainty at every corner.

Absolutely. And I I just I think, you know, it it does not compare in the physical nature of pregnancy at all, and especially the person who's not dealing with any of the physical symptoms. I'm not trying to say I relate to that. But I'm saying that, oh, here's a new curveball. Here's a new curveball.

Like, it's just all these

things. Helps mentally a lot. Yeah. For me personally, like and I think we'll talk about this with some of the questions that we got, but the the anxiety, like, I really thought that pregnancy was going to cause me a lot more anxiety. It was one my biggest fears about it.

And I think that because I developed so many more tools to deal with uncertainty during that travel year, I've had, like, virtually no anxiety, which is kind of insane.

Fantastic.

So Let's get into some questions. Let's get into some questions that get kind of catches you up to speed on where we are. And the nursery is done. We have basically all the baby things.

I think maybe what I'll try to remind you to do after we finish recording this is to post the nursery photos on our wanderingeavely.com/now page.

Okay.

So because that's like a good page because it's not like we have like a there's not like a post on Instagram. So if you wanna see what the baby nursery looks like, you can go to wanderinginfoil.com/now.

Well, I have to take good pictures in

my mouth. You that have the you took. They were great.

Okay. Well, how about this? After the we record, will you help me move the hospital bag stuff into here? And then I can, like, make the bed and make it cute?

Maybe. We'll see. But you have the two photos which are good enough. And we're in a we're in a period of good enough right now because you're thirty six weeks pregnant.

Anyway, the nursery is done.

The nursery is done.

Very cute. We both love it so much.

Yeah.

And the only thing we have left to do that is, like, very necessary is install the car seat. And the reason we haven't installed the car seat

We still don't have a car.

Is because we don't have a car. We have a loaner car because, in case you missed it, the week my dad passed away, our Tesla decided to die. The battery died. Yeah. And so that was rude Yeah.

And stressful. And thankfully, we did get a loaner. We have a model

X.

X. We hate it. It's terrible. It's so dumb.

It's also super great to have a very nice rental car. Yes. But boy, living in Portugal, it is not a car that I would want to own. It's too big. It's too cumbersome.

Too futuristic.

Like, the the doors that go up and, like, it's so cool in theory, but, like, in practicality, it is the worst. And also, you just look like a d bag everywhere you're, like, opening up these doors that go up. I'm like, no. Thank you. I just, like, this

is We're in our subtle era,

and this

that doesn't really is not conducive to that. But yes, as you said, we are very grateful that they did get us a loaner and so we've had it for a month and a half now. Yeah. And so who doesn't want the added uncertainty of like, can't drive your own car to the hospital and home from the hospital with your new brand new newborn baby. Yeah.

He doesn't want that.

Yeah.

So we've holding off installing the car seat, but I told Jason, think this weekend is the weekend that we need to just install the car seat on the loaner.

Just in case.

Just in case.

Our car is supposed to be fixed by Friday, but they've been saying that for, like, the past month, and we've our car's been there for two months now, so we'll see how it goes. Alright. Let's get into these questions. So you posted on the old Instagram, and you got a bunch of questions, which is great.

Yeah. I feel like I've done no I did that on my, like, personal Instagram because it's the most people, and I was like, I've done no updates Yeah. On my personal Instagram or, like, my art Instagram of this pregnancy. People are like, woah. This really escalated.

Alright.

So But, we yeah, let's go through them.

Yeah. We have about, I don't know, 12 questions or so. Let's not take too long because also your energy. You are working out today. Correct?

I am working out. At thirty six weeks, still working out. We gotta conserve Working some

out. Wanna say in quotes is Yeah. You're still yeah. Get in there.

Going to the gym and moving things around. Alright. So first question here. Your favorite This

is a classic. Someone was just like, what have been your favorite and least favorite parts of pregnancy? So I will say my I mean, it's very easy to start with the least favorite. I again, I have had a very lucky pregnancy. I thought I was prepared for the absolute worst because I had seen and heard all of the experiences all over the map.

And for anyone out there who's currently pregnant had a really hard pregnancy, I just want you to know that my heart absolutely goes out to you. And I'll never know how difficult that was because I feel like I came out on the, like, lucky side of a lot of these things. But still, my least favorite part was definitely like the nausea, like weeks five to ten, which wasn't even that bad, but just the the general nausea all and the exhaustion of that. It was just like a deep in your bones kind of exhaustion. Really haven't liked that.

I thought sleeping on my sides would be a lot harder of a thing. I kinda got used to that pretty quickly. But I would say this third trimester, sleeping, like, is just not comfortable. There's there's no way to, like, get comfortable.

And then whenever you do, you end up getting a karate kick.

Yeah. Exactly. Like last night, I was trying to fall asleep, and she had, like, violent hiccups. And I was like, girl, we gotta we gotta just calm this down.

Yeah.

So, think, yeah, I think my least favorite part, I will say, has just been, like, the limitations of my body. Mhmm. Like, you know, not being able to just, like, shoot up the stairs to grab something from the

second shoot up the stairs.

No. I can't You just end up out of breath. Yeah. And I'll pass out. Like, shooting up the stairs to, like, grab something or just getting up off the couch very easily.

It's just doing the dishes has become hard. Like, all of those, like, the mobility, the lack of mobility for some reason has, like, really impacted me, and I didn't think that would. And then my favorite parts of pregnancy are just like I mean, I feel like I'm very pregnancy neutral. Yeah. Like, favorite obviously, favorite parts are like thinking of her and just knowing that she's in there and like thinking about how excited I am to meet her.

And just in a weird way, kind of like, my favorite part of pregnancy has been surprising myself with, like, how I've handled it. Yeah. It's like feeling like, I feel more confident in myself in a weird way, which I know is not everyone's experience.

Of course.

But because I was expecting the worst and it kinda, like, came out a little bit better than I thought, it boosted my confidence in a way. Because I was just like, oh, and and all the changes in my body have happened so gradually.

Which is why I think nature had to take this long. You know?

So what about you? What have been like I don't know if it's very hard for you to say your favorite or least favorite.

I mean, yeah, from the partner's perspective, I think it's you have the cakewalk of the thing, obviously. It's always hard to see you in pain or in discomfort. Like, that's the hardest That's thing for hard for you.

That's always hard for you.

Anytime I hear you like, from the side of couch, I'm like, you okay? Like, I get like I'm like, you know, a cat on a ledge. Like, what's going on? And so that that's always, you know, not fun. But, yeah, I think, you know, watching you be able to, like, handle it and, like, still going to the gym.

Like, I'm so impressed that at thirty six weeks, you're still going to the gym even if it's once or twice a week. Not because I think you should, but because I'm just like, I just

I And keep giving myself permission to stop, but I'm like, it makes me feel better.

Exactly. Not at the

moment, but Actually, in the moment is the best. And not the day after. So that's why we just moved I I was basically doing three days a week until this last week. And I told Jason, was like, okay, for these next, like, two weeks, I have got to just go down to one day a week because I feel so good on the day.

Yeah.

The day after and I'm not doing anything wild, just to be clear. Like, I'm not like

You're not doing a 100 burpees. You're just doing 50.

Not doing burpees, for sure. It's just like a little bit of body weight movement stuff. It's, you know, stretching, opening up my, like, pelvis, like, stuff like that. But at this point, your body is so susceptible to strain that like, yeah, my body is tired the next day. Yeah.

And I don't wanna be like fatigued body wise going into, you know, the marathon that is birth. But yeah, I keep I keep giving myself permission to not go, but I'm just like, as long as I

feel good, I'm gonna go. I think my other two favorite things, number one, putting all the nursery stuff together, because I love building things. And also, it's all really cute stuff. Like, you picked out, like, such great stuff. Thank you.

I did pick out the crib.

So You did

pick even the crib. Though, like, hanging the art is not a fun thing, not a fun task together, but it's okay. We we go

pretty well.

I know. And you did a good job of loosening because, like

I did.

You know, you just I'm the one who has to hold the thing and tell me where to go.

I was actually very loose. The third trimester has gotten it's like, I don't give I don't care if it's, like, super strange.

And then the other thing what was I just gonna say? Oh, I actually have been surprised with myself and finding your belly to be cute.

Yeah.

Not because I've never in my life have been like, oh, pregnant belly is gross. Not whatsoever. But my person having a belly just always seemed kind of weird to me because I've always seen you as one shape.

Sure.

So I'm like, what's it gonna be like when you're not that shape? Sure. And it has been really cute. Just like watch your belly grow. And you've had a pretty cute belly.

Thank you.

And your belly button has popped. I'm sorry.

It hasn't been.

I'm sorry. It has. You went

No. I didn't. The the lip is preventing it from happening. First of all

The lip we're talking about is the belly button lip.

The belly button lip. We had a bet going of whether my belly button would pop. First of all, I commend you because I think that's very honest of you to say. I think that people don't feel like they can say stuff.

Oh, I'm a pretty honest guy.

You are a very honest guy. But I think that there is truth to that. It's like, it is a little bit like your brain's like, my I'm used to seeing my partner in this one way. Like, what what is my brain gonna feel when their body is changing like a totally And different I had the same question. I was like, how is how is my brain going to perceive my own body?

And we all have body stuff. You know what I mean? Like, just live in a society that is very body conscious. And I agree. I have been pleasantly surprised with and I think it helps that it's happened so gradually.

Yeah. For sure.

So I I think it, like, gets your brain able to kind of, like, see yourself in a different shape.

Yeah.

And I have enjoyed, like, dressing the bump. I only had one sort of, like, week there in the middle. I think it was, like, a second trimester where, like, I started really not being able to fit into any of my even, like, clothes at all, where I remember friends were visiting and I we were trying to go out. I this think was like the Aquarium Day or whatever. And I had to try on like three different outfits to like even remotely wear something that felt comfortable and cute.

And like that was really frustrating.

Right.

But I those moments have been few and far between. So that's very interesting on the body body side

effect. Also, just wanna make it like a 100% clear. A woman's body can look however she wants it to look, and it's not in my thing to say one way or the other. I was more just I was more just commenting of like a pregnant belly. I didn't know how it'd feel for my person to

You're have fine. The the

The police aren't coming for you.

Police aren't coming for you.

Yeah. You know, I'm just trying to, like, I'm saying it in clear out here. You know? I I don't wanna I don't wanna catch any strays, you know, out here in

fuck out. That's a very normal thing to feel, and I it's totally fine to share that.

Okay. Next question. Let's this one's great.

What are somebody asked what are the some of the best ways Jason has helped throughout the pregnancy?

I didn't ask this question just so everyone's curious. So I don't know any

What if it was you? Just like I I, like, submit question. I'm like, so, like, what are, like, the most, like, standout ways that Caroline has shown you that she's the most admirable and cutest pregnant person of all time.

Of all time?

It's so weird we got that question. That's so bizarre. No. Some of the best ways. Well, definitely, this is an obvious one, but, like, taking the lion's share of chores and kind of, helping out whenever possible to like make meals or do things like that.

That's something that you do in our lives anyway just because like, you know, sometimes I'll have like a mental health day or I'll do whatever and Yeah. You've always been very helpful with picking up the slack in that regard. But I my answer to this question that I came up with was, think the biggest way that you have helped is just by being, like, all in on, like, enthusiasm. So, you know, when we go to doctor's appointments, like, really being present, really, like, wanting to be there, wanting to fully be engaged in the experience. And I know that that's not that easy for you because the way that I know you well enough to know the way that your brain works is like, until there's a baby that we're holding, you're sorta like, is there a baby?

You know? Also, I think it was it was the same thing for like, just like getting to pregnancy. Right. So it's like, until like, you're pregnant and like, we're going to the appointments, it's very hard for me to like

Think about that.

Think about it because like, I can't see it. Like, my logical brain is like, I don't know what's going on here. Like, we have other things to do.

So So I think, like, that that enthusiasm or whether it's that or whether it's, like, doing your own research or, you know, having your little chatty bitty that tells you, like, what I'm going through every week. You sending me, like, TikToks and things like that that you see with, like, baby hacks. Instagram reels of, like, baby hacks or, hey, I wanna do, like, I wanna do something like this or let's do it this way or whatever. Like, you've just been a very active participant, and I really appreciate that. And that has helped me because I feel like I have a true partner going through this, like, weird life experience.

Yeah. For sure.

Again, I know the bar is on the ground. Everyone, like, obviously, that's what a partner should do

Yeah.

As your brain, life, and

But I think a lot of people not a lot of people may be listening to this show, but I think just in general, there are certain circumstances in life where you want someone to show up in a certain way and, like, you think that they will, but then they don't. And then it's like

Yeah. And there is a reality that we can acknowledge to the fact that I think in some ways it is really hard to go through this experience as the partner, not the person who is birthing, because you have to mentally work harder to, like, be invested because you're not feeling everything.

Yeah. It's just it's very different. Right?

You just It's very different.

I I and I've heard this from some dad content that I've watched where it's just like, I feel so disconnected from this entire process because I literally I physically can't empathize. I I don't know what this feels like. And like, you know, and again, even before you were pregnant, like, go about my day, like, Groundhog Day. Like, I wake up and every day I'm just like, whoop, we gotta reset. I'm just going.

You wake up with, like, the emotions of yesterday still.

The residual.

And it's just, you know, and then to bring pregnancy into that. So, yeah, I mean, I I've tried to do my best to push myself a little bit further than I normally would to show up for you emotionally, to create space for you, to try to empathize where I have very little empathy normally and just like try to be like, okay, like just be here and like understand and try to be helpful and whatever. Let's report back after the baby comes out to really give me a score because that's where it might all crumble down.

You're gonna do great.

Okay, great. Fantastic.

How have you prepared financially for having a baby? A lot.

Yeah, I mean, I think this is

We waited a long time.

Yeah, this is the number one reason why we're having a baby where you're 37 and I'm 43. It's because we've been together for fifteen years and we could have done this at the five year mark and that would have been kind of like the quote unquote normal time, but it would have been a horrible time for us financially, and it would have been a very difficult time for us mentally.

Totally.

And so, I think waiting this long, that has been the biggest preparation for us. Yeah.

Know? Because we've had time to build savings. We've had time to build investments. We've had time to build, you know, business foundations. So, it's like, we have all of these foundations in place that have allowed us to be able to take time off.

Yeah.

To have a financial cushion in case, like, you know, something changes.

To be able to afford a night nanny, which we talked about in our

To be able to afford a night planning. A night nanny, which So like we are using for the first three months.

Yeah. Everybody kinda knows we're doing that, and and that is an incredibly amazing thing to be able to do. Yeah. And to live in a country where, you know, we have friends that looked into it in another country and like, it was not affordable for them. I would say affordable in quotes because that's on a spectrum for everybody to decide.

But I think for us, like it does feel doable and it is something that just like, we know that sleep is so important to us and like mental health is so important to us and being able to do that. And so, yeah, you know, preparing for that for years, putting savings aside, and then also kind of like doing our final launch of wandering aimfully really helped to build up the financial runway in a monthly thing so that when we take off for three months and we're not working, when we're pivoting our business towards the end of this year, and we're not making any additional new income, like we have a buffer for all of that and that's really helpful. And and I think too, like, you know, we started, you know, just kind of like preparing financially for another person in our household. Like we started a quote unquote college savings fund years ago.

Yeah. Think that was 2016.

Yeah. And and we've just been putting like I think when we started, we were putting like $50 into it a month, whatever. It's up to like $200 goes into it a month now. But like, by the time our our baby turns 18 and is ready to make a decision on like, do you wanna travel? Do you wanna go to college?

Do you wanna whatever? There's gonna be such a a sizable chunk of money sitting and waiting for them that like neither of us had. And we don't want them to just like have it and do what they want with it, but like to have the optionality to be able to do things is I think an incredible like place to to be. And it just that just takes twenty years of thinking ahead. Exactly.

And and the ability to put money aside. But but like I said, even just $50 a month can can set up an incredible kind of, like, thing for for a child down the road. So I'm glad that we did little things like that because it's not something that either of us necessarily, like, were thinking about. We just started doing and now I'm like, oh, I'm so glad we started doing this because it's gonna set us up and set them up for something. We

do talk often though about, like, we didn't have any of these financial resources when we were growing up. And so there's a delicate balance of, like, wanting to offer financial like, a good financial foundation for our kids, but also not wanting to set them up for a life full of

Everything you can do

to privilege and handed to them. And because so many of life's best lessons, not just about empathy and understanding the way that the world works, but also just, you know, hard work and building character and grit and all of those things only come when you don't know that you have a safety net. So it's like, it's a very delicate balance. It's something we talk about often. And I think the biggest pill to swallow as parents is knowing that if you wanna teach your kids those lessons, you also, as parents, have to be willing to be inconvenienced.

Yeah.

So that you can build up their threshold for their tolerance for inconvenience. You're you're a family. So you're going to have to also be inconvenienced and teach them patience and teach them like, listen, we don't you can't always just like throw any other problem. Yeah. Like, so

I think I figured out how we solve this to not have like a silver spoon baby.

Go ahead.

We can order two appetizers in any meal, but they can only order one No. Or

None, babe.

Okay.

You're we're we're gonna work on it. I love how that was like headed in a direction.

It was it was completely a joke no matter what, But now that I said one, I was like, yeah, should be zero, I guess. Wow. No appetizers for the baby?

Hey. I was a no appetizer family, and

So, I mean, I

turned out kickass.

Yeah. I don't even remember going out to dinner that much as a kid. We We may have.

I just have that. On the podcast before, but I will never forget going on, like, my first couple dates with you, and you were an appetizer guy. I was like

Yeah.

You're rich.

Yeah. Like Well

What are you doing? You're being so irresponsible.

Also, in college, when I worked at Athlete's Foot, which is a shoe store that does I don't even think it exists anymore, where you would go in and try on shoes and buy them. I would take my check from that, and I would literally then go to, like, Chili's with my friends, and, like, I would pay for dinner for everybody. Then would

have because you're Mecca.

Then I would have no money. No money. Like, I would just, that's where all my money went.

Paying for dinner.

I really do. Alright.

Okay. So how has it felt stepping back from WAIM?

Okay. So let me talk about You can talk

about this the most.

I'm, like, the most excited about is so we ended up hiring an operations manager. Her name is Sara.

Hi Sara, if you're listening to this.

I'm not even sure Sara knows we have a podcast.

Yes, she does.

But just mostly because it hasn't been in any of her workflow yet because she came on two weeks ago now.

Yep.

The last time we recorded a podcast was five weeks ago. But, that part has been amazing. So just to give you a very quick, overview for those of you who care and you've been thinking about hiring someone, we have not hired a person to be like an operations manager slash like assistant type of person really ever. Like I, we had one

I had an assistant when I had made Vibrant. That was before Wandering Aimfully.

Yes. And then I had one during the I wear your shirt days. Yep. So this is like very little experience with this, but we went through a hiring process through Upwork, created and job 85 people applied. And the little test that I did, I like sharing this because I think it opens people's eyes to this, is I did a little three question thing I wanted people to fill out.

I didn't want their CV. I don't care about their resume. I don't even want your work history. It does not matter to me. I just want you to show me that you can do the tasks that are like important for me to do, to have you do.

And these were very small things. It was like, you know, fix this transcript, find this error in this paragraph and then like do this other thing. And, but my like, big brain moment, which I don't have a lot of times, but sometimes I have a big brain moment. Was like, oh, let me put this into ChatGPT just to see how it responds because my guess is a lot of people are gonna do that. Boy, it was formulaic in in its response.

And I was just like, okay, this is fine. But like, the first answer was wrong, because it was like sourcing incorrect thing. Anyway, I we post this job posting. 79 people

Out of 85.

Out of 85 used ChatGPT and copied and pasted Just

straight copy pasted.

The exact thing. Yeah. So I was like, oh, this is so easy. I can just thumbs down every single one of these people because some of them even look like they would be a good fit. They have tons of experience.

They've made a bunch of money through jobs on Upwork, which is a good way to know that people keep getting rehired.

It's like, if you're not going that extra step to double double check the work Exactly. Like, great. Use ChatGPT. Like, we're not against that at all. Yeah.

You you need to add your human touch. You need to you need to double check that the work is correct. You need to rephrase things. Like, just go that extra step. So that

was Yeah.

Didn't You sent me that, and it was you sent me the inbox of, like, all the responses. And when I tell you it was so eye opening to see like just the straight copy and paste. Like some were almost identical in their

responses. Were identical.

Yeah. They were all identical in the structure of the response. It was wild.

So anyway, Sara was one of the six. He did a good job. And then I sent a follow-up test, which I then paid people for their time, one hour to do like seven things to just see like how far they could get. It was so interesting to see how people handled that. Like, some people just like they spent the one hour and then they just stopped and then they didn't say anything.

Some people got everything done in the one hour, but like it was kind of rushed and like it was again, it's okay. I just want to see how people handled it. But Sara was, her response was just like the best. She was like, first of all, I knew there was an hour, but like I had to finish all these tasks. Like I was not gonna let them go undone.

Was like, oh, that's a huge green flag because I just love a person who's like me. That's like a dog a I gotta get this finished. And then just like, it's very simple and silly, but like she uses emojis a lot. She has a good sense of humor. And like, this is someone who And

it's just a personality match.

Yeah. And it's like, I'm gonna interact with this person on a day to day basis. Like, I want it to be a person I wanna interact with. And so I even find myself, like, we're Whatsapping, you know, every single day now as she's working through things. And, like, I find it so enjoyable to see her messages come through.

Whereas, like, I've had relationships with other people, developers, whatever. Like, I see like, their, like, name pops up with a message, I'm just kinda, like, bummed because I know it's gonna be not a fun Yeah. And it doesn't have to be fun, but I'm just saying, like, the interaction is gonna It be

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it.

So, anyway, we're we're two weeks in, but extremely happy. So I will say the the the how is it felt stepping back? Weird. Yeah. Because for the entire time of running Wandering Aimfully specifically, I have done all of the admin tasks.

Yep. I have done all of the Slack community management. And then also in Teachery , I've done all the customer support. And now Sara is doing all of those things.

Yeah. You've just been behind, like, the control panel this entire time, like pushing all the levers and making sure everything's running. And to, like, have someone step in and sit in that chair, basically, is gotta feel so weird.

Well, and the weirdest thing is, like, right now, we don't have a baby yet. So it's like, we still have the time. So, like, I still have my, like, morning, like, routine stuff.

We're gonna have a conversation about that because you're gonna need to taper off pretty soon here.

Taper off what?

Like, you still have your hand in so many different things.

Oh, I know. But but the way that I have it now is, like, I see it, but I don't do anything.

I know.

Which is very weird.

Very weird.

So and and I I know listen. When we have, like, a brand newborn newborn, there's plenty of pockets of time throughout the day. Like, I've I've had enough friends who've been dads that are like, yeah. Like, you still find, like, one or two hours easily to, like, do things. But even that, I'm forcing myself now where I'll get up.

I have plenty of time. I have nothing to do. There's an inbox of like 10 things that I could do, but I'm like, thought it was gonna handle this in one hour. I don't need to do this. So that has been extremely weird.

I I will say the one thing though that I I really do struggle with is like our our Slack community.

Yeah. Me me too.

Which is like, come on.

No. I struggle I struggle with the thought.

I only I gave her a look and you couldn't see it because we're not on video because Caroline does not exist in our Slack

But community the reason I said had that response is to because to me, the Slack community is, like, where everyone's hanging out. And the thing that I meant about that is I feel a sense of, like, responsibility for providing this continuity of training and information and community and everything. And it's so weird to me to be like, okay, for the next three months, like, we're gonna kinda be out. Like, even though I'm not there every day, like, it's the part of me that, like

You know I'm there.

I know you're there. I know I know that we, you know and of course, like, we told everyone, everyone's well aware even with this last launch. So it's like it's not like I feel like we're somehow, you know, shirking our responsibilities in any way, shape, or form. And also we have such an amazing community that they're all like, yeah, take the time, like and a lot

of them are

parents and

Really, the the timing couldn't be better because the summer is always the slowest time in our Slack community. It's like August, it's like, it's everyone goes quiet because people are going on vacations or taking holidays or just slowing down, even if they're in a different hemisphere, like it's just like the vibe is much slower. So the timing has actually worked out pretty well. But, yeah, I mean, we have coaching sessions that are gonna go up for these like live quote unquote premieres where we figured out how to like build this like auto play coaching thing for the next three months. But like, I mean, I would imagine at the times that those happen, if nothing's going on in our life with Baby, like, I'll probably watch it with everybody there and just like tune in.

But it'll be so weird that like, it's not us doing it live, which we've been doing for six years. So, all in all, it's felt very weird to me as the person who is like so into the business every single day. But I will say finding Sara and having someone who's very competent and capable to take over all these things has been an amazing weight off my shoulders. And it really gives me a lot of excitement for like the next chapter of business for us, where we can really focus on the high level creative ideas, execution of those things, and then have a really competent person to like help manage everything and like have everything work smoothly.

Yeah.

So I I look forward to that and yeah, we'll we'll definitely keep everybody posted on how that goes.

And I will say that it has surprised me. This won't come as a surprise to many people out there, but, like, my brain has definitely done the thing where the number one thing that's taking up my thoughts and and focus is just like becoming a mom. Yeah. Which, you know, may sound very, very obvious, but I would have thought that I would have been someone who at least would have been like, oh, I wanna work on stuff here or there. And it's like, no, no, no.

Like, my brain just wants to, like, fully shut out the world, shut out everything else, like, anything that my my my mom was like, oh, you have, like, time before the baby comes. Like, don't you wanna do some art and stuff? I'm like, no. I actually, I just am, like, going fully into my, like, mom cave Yeah. Because I feel like I'm about to go through this, like, huge transition.

And I just want, like, my little bubble to, like, get my mind right and, like, be fully grounded and present for her when she comes. So that that has been kind of surprising to me, which I think most people would be like, no. Like, obviously, your brain does that.

Yeah. Okay. Next question?

Well, parlays into the next question. What are the most surprising or unexpected emotions you've experienced throughout the journey?

Oh, I have so many.

Well, I I hey. Let's start with you, actually, because I'm curious, like, when you envisioned how you would be as, like, a person preparing to be a father and, like, through pregnancy, like, how does the experience match up to what you expected of yourself?

I think until the baby comes, like, there's just it's so hard for a person like me to, like, have any emotional connection to it.

Of course. Yeah. I mean, like, I know that one of your fears going into it was, like, the fear of losing your autonomy, the fear of losing your freedom. But I guess that has been a fear that you've had to step into during all this. So that's not really surprising.

No. Not at all. And I and again, like, until the baby comes and the baby's here and, like, we have a whole new life routine and setup with a whole other person involved, I don't have any, like, feelings about it yet other than fear, other than like, you know, and that's like the one thing that's been a constant that like my brain goes back to when I'm like out on a walk or I'm doing whatever. Know, it's like, oh, like, this is not gonna feel this easy in the future. Like, you're gonna have something in the back of your mind that like, oh, I need to be, you know, be doing this or whatever.

Which is so funny because I feel like out of the two of us, I'm more, like, historically, I'm the one that future trips more than you. Like, I'm the one who is like, oh my gosh, like, this is gonna be this way or like try like painting through the scenarios. And on my side, what's the most surprising or unexpected thing? The most surprising or unexpected thing has been that I haven't been doing that, like, at all. Yeah.

Which is weird. So it's just like, I feel like there's been this, like, role reversal kind of.

But it might also be because, like, you have so much physically to think about that, like, you don't even have the space to necessarily, like

I I think you're right. Like, it kinda brings me into the present moment because it's And I have like

no physical I

have nothing.

Like, to deal to deal with. And so all I can do is, like, mentally trip up over, like

Totally.

What's it gonna be like?

So That's interesting.

But, yeah, I'm I I'm very interested because I have in a lot of content that I have consumed about dad stuff is how difficult it is for a dad to connect Mhmm. To the baby in the beginning. Mhmm. And I have a hard time connecting

Mhmm.

With other humans in general.

Mhmm.

And and truthfully, honestly, other people's babies, I have never cared about whatsoever. And I that's not even like a intentional. It's just like someone's like, oh, here's this baby. And I'm like, I don't care about that baby. Like, it's not that I don't think the baby's cute.

It's not that I don't think that like, oh, like, me, like, snuggle the baby. Like, I understand that part of it. It's like, I promise I'm not right now. But, yeah, I'm actually very curious to see how that feels for me because I don't know if it's gonna be different, and I'm I'm trying to leave the door open for it to be different and not to think, oh, this is how I'm going to be as well.

Yeah. So that you don't, like, kinda manifest that. However, we have had lots of conversations about also not trying to force you into an expectation that's only gonna cause conflict. Do you know what I mean? So it's like, whatever, like and I think you I'm grateful for these other dads who have shared stuff like that where like, hey, it took me a while to, like, develop this bond.

It took me a while to, like, for my like, or, like, I wasn't super into the newborn phase, but, when my baby got nine months and, like, started developing a personality, like, I could connect to them so much more. And I think what I've heard from people who are parents is like, everyone's experience is different.

Yeah.

How everyone bonds with their children is different. And so don't, like, put an expectation on yourself. Even for mothers, like, there's this, like, notion that you're supposed to, like, be immediately, like, head over heels in love, and people who aren't can feel really like inadequate or like something's wrong with them. And I think hearing from people that that's not always the experience is really helpful because it gives permission to just have an authentic experience. Like Mhmm.

We obviously love our daughter. We obviously are excited to be her parents. And however that ex like, connection evolves is just natural, and it's the way that it's supposed to be. And I think you create more problems when you place an expectation on yourself and think this was supposed to be this way. So and and also it can cause, I think, tension in relationships where, like, maybe I do connect right away, maybe you don't.

And then I'm like, oh, you should be feeling this way. And it's like, that's never gonna lead to a good situation.

Yeah.

So I'm giving you the space and the permission to just, like, let it feel however it's going to feel. However, and again, not to put this on you, I know you and I think I do think that when you meet her, like, don't have doubts or fears about whether it happens on day one, whether it happens on month one, whether it happens over the course of that first year.

18. When she turns 18 and moves out.

It's like Dean leaves the house. I don't have a doubt in my body that you are going to love her, connect with her. If anything, I'm like, I know exactly how this is gonna go. She's gonna be a daddy's girl. She's gonna love you more than me, and it's fine.

It's Probably because you're not thirsty for It's true.

Yeah. Yeah. That's how it is.

And so but but going back to the question of, like, what has been most surprising, everything about pregnancy has been surprising to me because I thought it was gonna be so different for me based on how hard it was for us to and, again, hard is relative. I know people go through much harder fertility journeys, but, like, it was rocky for us in the beginning. And I had this idea in my head that, like, because we had experienced loss, that I was gonna be anxious the entire time. Really, just in general, my fear about becoming a mother with, like, all the hormones and the uncertainty was that I was gonna kind of regress in my anxiety healing journey, and then I was going to have a lot of anxiety throughout the process. I don't do well with new body sensations.

I used to struggle a lot with health anxiety. So the idea of doing shots every day, the idea of going to the hospital all the time, the idea of getting blood drawn all the time. I was like, this is gonna this is gonna make me spiral. And the it has not at all. At all.

And it's just that has been so surprising to me and a testament to, I think, anyone listening out there who you're dealing with an anxiety disorder apart from pregnancy, you're just dealing with an anxiety disorder. You I think it's very easy to create a narrative about yourself that you will feel like this forever. And I just wanna be like a little bit of a beacon of hope of like, it is totally possible to rewire your brain. It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of tools.

It takes a lot of support. It takes a lot of time, but you're not your your brain is not set in stone. And you can learn skills that can have you show up in the world and relate to the world in a different way. And that has been my experience through this. And so it's been, so many things about it have been surprising.

Yeah. I I will say just to say it here. I think I've said it before in other podcasts, but, like, incredibly impressed with the handling of the daily injection.

Thank you.

That is a thing that is like, that is a very difficult thing to do every single day of your life because it's not even just like a little, what's it, subcutaneous, is that what the thing is called?

Yeah, like

tiny little like pen, like the pen click injection where you just like, it's like a boop, which is what we did when we did the embryo freezing. Mhmm. This is like a full on syringe that has to like go into your skin and

And like it burns.

And like that for nine months straight, plus, you know, you'll have to do it for another six weeks. Like, that is so difficult to do. And especially on days when like, now in the third trimester, when you're just feeling terrible.

And when she's kicking me during it, I'm like, girl.

Yeah. And I mean, this

is not making it easy on me.

Yeah. I I just think anyway, I just wanted to say that I I'm that's very much commendable to how you've handled that.

Well, and I will say

I wouldn't say admirable, but I would say commendable.

I will say I was very scared. I was very scared going into it. It felt like an insurmountable task. And then I just focused on one day at a time, and it's really not that bad. Like, on a scale of, like, I want to, like, I dread this.

This is something that, like, every day I wake up and I'm like, I have to do this today. I don't even think about it until it's almost time. And then I would say probably half the days, I'm like, I don't wanna do this. The other half the days, I'm like, gotta go do this. Like Yeah.

It is and it's fine. And some days are awful, but you get through it. And if anything, I have somehow framed it in my mind to be like, every day, it feels like I'm going into the gym to prepare me for how to deal with pain mentally for birth Yeah. Or for being a mom. That's what I just kinda like view it as.

And I view each injection as an opportunity to like practice being more comfortable with pain and not running away from it. And I think that's really helped me.

Great. Alright. Couple more questions here.

How has it been going through pregnancy after miscarriages? So just to recap everyone, we had two very, very early miscarriages. So what they would call a chemical pregnancy, which means you are pregnant, but just the embryo is implants but is never able to kind of develop. And we were diagnosed with two blood disorders which were the causes of those losses. And so that that's what we're talking about with the shots.

I had to go on daily blood thinners, which worked. And and that was another thing I'll say about the shots is, like, on the hard days, I just lean into the gratitude of, like, somebody discovered that this is a solution. Yeah. And the fact that we can even have a child at all is a miracle that someone, like, figured that out. So I just try to be grateful for that.

But I will say I definitely thought I think the way that it has impacted the pregnancy is, like, it took me I know it still probably takes you more time to like connect to the fact that we have an actual child.

Yeah.

But I think my brain was protecting me from like really connecting with her for a long time. Like because I was just sort of like, it's not even that I was actively like something bad is gonna happen or we're gonna lose the baby or something like that. I thought that would happen. I didn't really find those thoughts to be too intrusive. But it's more just like I felt this partition between my brain and being able to connect to who she is and the fact that she's here.

And I think it's just a protective mechanism. I will say because on our because our losses were so early, as soon as we got past that, like, five or six week mark

Mhmm.

My brain did this cool thing where it was like, oh, the outcome can be different now.

Mhmm.

Like, know what I mean? Like, those first few weeks were actually the hardest because my brain was kinda like, every time I'd go to the bathroom, I'd be like I'm expecting to see blood. I'm expecting to, like, just lose loser. And that part was really hard. Yeah.

But then once I got past that point and I think that's gotta be so much harder for people who have later losses

Yeah.

Because they have to wait that whole time until they can kinda, like, breathe. And then I will say I was holding my breath definitely at some of the bigger scans. Like, I had probably one or two, like, anatomy scans, like, early on where, like, I felt nervous going into it of, like, kind of bracing myself for bad news. And we also have friends who have had, you know, gotten really bad news. And so but I just would constantly tell myself, don't fear something that isn't here yet.

Like, don't you know what I mean? And I'm trying to keep myself from that, like, future tripping. And so, yeah, I I would say it has taken a lot of mental effort in order to not experience anxiety after loss Yeah. And to try to connect. But I think once we got enough scans under our belts where it was like, she's normal, she's growing, she's healthy, she's breathing, she's beautiful, like, I I started to feel more confident that like this and then something weird happened where then when we got to the third trimester, then the the fear kind of popped up again because it was like, well, now I'm so close to meeting her.

If something happens now

Yeah.

That would be so devastating. And, like, it's devastating anytime, but, like, you know, I had some fear about that. But one of the bright spots of being a high risk pregnancy is that we go all the time to see her. I know a lot of women don't have that. Like, they're only seeing her seeing their kids, like, multiple weeks in between.

Yeah.

But we get to have scans or we get to have doctor's visits where I feel more confident of like

Yes. Once a week.

She's doing she's doing well.

Yeah. There's a lot of a lot of attention paid. So, yeah, we have a very close eye.

Yeah. So that's that's how it's been for me. And I mean, I don't think it's probably changed much for you.

It does. No.

Yeah. Because you're like

It didn't didn't happen to to me physically.

Yeah. But it

was I think I think had it been later on. Yeah. It would have been different, but because I think it was so early, there's just nothing there's nothing I can see. There's nothing I can, like, I don't yeah. It's it's not that different for me.

Yeah. Which I think is

I'm just glad that it's been good for you.

Totally. And I I do just wanna say, like, I do think that is actually one of the harder parts of early loss is that, like, really, it can be very isolating because your partner sort of isn't invested yet. And it's like you're the only one who's sort of, like, experiencing that that hope and that feeling and taking the test and doing the thing and feeling feeling the pregnancy symptoms and all that. And then all of a sudden, it's just like gone. Like that, it's really hard.

So Yeah. But I just I literally, when I have days where my body aches and I'm just sort of like uncomfortable, I think back to like it was not that long ago where I can connect to like sitting on the couch and being so sad and wondering like when it would happen Yeah. Like if it would happen. And and so I just back to those moments, and I'm like, this is the moment that I was, like, hoping for. So, stop your complaining.

No. I'm just kidding. Yeah.

Alright. Four more questions.

Yep. So, this one was interesting. You can't know for sure, but how do you think becoming parents will change you? What has already started to shift? Has pregnancy made you see the world differently?

This is a very deep question and that we could probably do a whole podcast on.

Yeah. I think it would be fun to do this one a year from now. Yeah. Like, this is a podcast episode to to kinda come back to. I I mean, yeah.

Again, this is just my, like, logical rational brain. I don't think it's changed me whatsoever because the baby's not here yet. So it's like, until the baby gets here, like, I don't think I'm gonna change at all. But I do think, like, naturally

It's funny though because you say that, like, I've seen a change in you.

Which is what?

I've seen you, like, consider decisions from a different perspective.

Like, don't drive so fast on the highway?

No. You still drive too fast. No. I just think, like, you have considered I I see you considering us as a family already. Like, I see you being like, oh, you know, this will make our lives easier or this will and maybe it just goes back to what I was saying about you being all in.

Right.

Like, so that's a little bit of a change of just in terms of, like, your willingness. I think also your willingness to I mean, you've always been someone who is willing to, like, look at yourself and experience personal growth and things like that. But I think you have an awareness that be becoming a parent is only going to highlight the weaknesses in our own triggers and patterns and things like that. And I've just seen, like, a willingness for you to talk about, like, these are the ways that I don't want this pattern to show up in our kids or, like, parenting and stuff like that. So I don't know.

I've seen, like, a like a a softness and an openness to change that I maybe didn't see before.

Okay. Well, yeah. I know my mom is rooting for the the softening of She always says me. Yeah, for sure. Which I think will happen.

Like, I just think it's an inevitability. Like, Totally. You have a a tiny human that you want to bring into the world, and, you know, I may be a 43 year old man who has gone through what I've gone through and I exist the way that I do, but I don't want a brand new human to like have all of my baggage that they have to like sort through to start. Like, I want them to like live their own life and figure it all out. So, so yeah, I I think that'll be interesting for me, but again, I just personally, I don't feel like any big shifts are going to happen till she gets here, but I do think there will be a shift.

Like, I just don't think I'm gonna be able to exist as the same person.

No. That's thing is that's why it's so hard to answer the question because it's like everything.

Yeah.

For me personally, something I'm excited for that I've sort of noticed happening already is like just a more confidence in my own point of view and my own intuition. Like, think I've always kind of felt that way, but man, just ingesting all of the like pregnancy content, the momming content. Where do you stand on this? How do you feed your kids? What do you do?

Like, how do you parent them? Like, there's just a million different ways to go about it, and everyone has such strong opinions.

Mhmm.

And I think I have already had to make decisions where I'm just like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that or I'm not gonna worry about that or I care a lot about this or not about this. And you have to kind of like stand, like say those things with your full chest because people are gonna have opinions about it, and you have to just like be okay with being judged or misunderstood or whatever. And I'm actually looking forward to that. I've just like giving less fucks.

Yeah. I mean, I think for a people pleaser by nature, it's hopefully going to create a lot of that. I'm not a people pleaser by nature, so maybe I'll shift into a little bit more of that than I ever have before, but we'll find out. We'll see.

And also, I do find myself like, the way that we show up in situations or, like, saying certain things that kind of I don't know. I I sort of, like, step outside my body, and I'm, like, thinking about just being careful about what I say because everything that you say with little kids around is like you're informing their worldview. Right? So it's like it's not like I'm saying anything bad, but I'm just saying like, okay. You know, I I especially having like a little girl, it's like, okay.

Commenting on my own appearance or negative speaking negatively about myself. It's like that informs her self image. And so it has made me, I guess, just like step outside of my own experience and see how I'm behaving and going like, would I want my child to model this?

Right.

And so, yeah. I I think that's a very natural thing with parenting too. It's like, it just kinda makes you, like, more mindful of the way that you move through the world so that your kids you're, like, molding them into, like, who you want them to be.

Yeah.

Not for a while, of course, but, like, you still think about these things. Are you doing hypnotherapy for the birth? Hard recommend. And the answer is yes. So hypnobirthing.

And really, it's, like, such a weird word for it. I really just see it as like mindful birthing.

Yeah. When I hear it,

I'm like Meditative birth.

I'm like, okay. So I'm gonna have an old timey clock that I swing in front of you while we're doing this.

So I'm I'm gonna cluck like a chicken while the baby comes Every

contraction.

But I am following, like, hypnobirthing. I I have heard wonderful things about it. But to me, again, it's just like meditative birthing, which to me seems like a no brainer if you were gonna go through, like, one of the potentially most painful things. Just using mindfulness tools makes sense to me in managing fear and managing uncertainty. So a couple of things I've done, I mean, we we did a birth prep class, and she talked not too much about hypnobirthing, but she just kinda, like, introduced it as a concept.

Then I took, like, a little mini course on it, which was helpful, and I have been, like, practicing the affirmation. So I'm not, like, super, like, deep into it, but I it just made sense to me that regardless of even before I found out about hypnobirthing, I was planning on using meditation as, a pain management technique. So that's what I'll be doing.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

I think in the zone.

I think this is just, like, very much how we exist in the world too, which is, like, we're not the type of people who are gonna have a baby and we're like, let's just see how it all falls out.

Yeah. No. When we

get to the hospital, we'll just whatever my body feels like it needs, I'll give it and I'll just do that. It's like, no, we're gonna have like 93 tools available at our disposal to use.

But Sorry. Go ahead.

And and like, we're we're gonna be prepared in like what we feel is gonna be best for us. Yeah. And and I think that like, that's just how we operate through life. It's how we operate through business. It's how we move to Portugal.

It's like all of those things. It's it's the planner in us. And again, listen, I fully understand that we were literally having a conversation about this at lunch yesterday that like, we do not know how the birth is going to go. There are so many curveballs that can happen, and we can't control any of that. But what we can control is like our preparation for what those curveballs will be.

Yeah. And again, it's like going back to like the airport in Croatia. It's like, I'm just gonna prepare that I will get strip searched today. So I'm gonna wear my good undies.

Yep.

I'm gonna make sure I'm smelling nice. Like, I wanna be ready for this. But like, if it doesn't happen, that's fine. But like, I wanna be ready for it. And so I think like understanding hypnobirthing and and like other things like that.

And like you've created a whole bunch of checklists for me, which are amazing. In the next like two weeks, I'm starting to go on my like be a prepared dad journey for labor. And like I'm gonna watch birth vlogs. I have not watched a single one of those. Like I wanna start to like, you know, assimilate some of this information into my awareness.

Yeah. And you have a foundation because we took the class together.

Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, but now for me is the time to like, okay, great. Like, I wanna like be armed with a bunch of things that I've seen and we've had plenty of conversations. We will have more for the next couple of weeks of how I can best support and, like, things that I, you know

Yeah. I'm super direct. I'm like, here's here's what to say to me. Here's what not to say to me.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

But I think you have to speak up for those things. Now, what's interesting about you saying that is and I totally agree with you. Like, our approach has been, like, let's educate ourselves. Let's be informed. Let's like know.

And also, I just am like, I love learning stuff, so I love learning about birth. I love learning about, like, the physiology of it, the mental of it, whatever. But I will say, going back to what what has surprised me is I thought I would be like a color coded notes girl, like a full deep dive girl, read all the books girl. I haven't gotten through a single freaking book. Haven't gotten through a single book.

Yeah. But I think I I think as I just clicked open your little One Hub Notion organizer, like, while you may not have a color coded binder system, this is a this is a color coded binder system.

No. Yeah. It's all relative. I know what you're saying. But I'm I'm just saying, like, I have friends who, like, they have, like, Google Docs that are 12 pages long.

And I surprised myself with the fact that, like, I definitely came to this point in whether it was researching breastfeeding or researching the, you know, birth or whether it was just researching newborn care and all these things. I definitely reached this point where I was like, oh, I'm tilting into like information overload.

Yeah, of course.

And in 2025, it can become very easy to just like try to consume everything. And then you just have this like noise in your head, and I think it can cause more anxiety. So I have found that I I have this threshold where I start to feel prepared, and then there's this, like, line where it start to feel, like, over prepared and overloaded. And then I just that that's when I put down the book or I put down the course, and I just go, and the rest can just fall where it falls. And also, I remind myself that you don't it's not some test where you, like, have to cram and then get all the answers right at the moment.

Like, the baby's here or the birth is here, and, like, yes, you wanna be prepared, but, like, you can problem solve in the moment as well.

For sure. And, like, again, you may try to problem solve for a whole bunch of things that don't actually happen the way that you think they're gonna

Yeah.

Right? And so it's like, it's good to, I think, be prepared, but I think it's also good to just like be open to the fact that like, again, you might get the strip search, you might not. We'll find out.

Exactly.

Alright. Two more questions here.

What will work slash childcare look like for you? Great question. And we have an idea about what it'll look like, but we are leaving it open to how it will feel once she's here. But the way that we have planned it is basically like three full months of both of us off of work. Of course, Jason already told you, like, Sara is gonna be basically managing the day to day.

He's gonna be the point of contact, so there's gonna be a little bit of that.

Yeah. Like, I I envision that I will probably work. I don't think it'll be an hour a day, maybe a half hour a day.

Yeah. Mostly Checking in on stuff.

Mostly just from the standpoint of like, it's also something I want to do. It would be it would be different if it was like

Kinda like a hobby.

Yeah. It's like, I work at a nine to five job. I'm like, I can't wait to take three months off. Like, I don't love showing up and doing this or whatever. It's like, I I love the things that we build.

And so, like, I want to check-in on them. But I also don't want to at all be the, I gotta go do work right now. It's two weeks after the baby's born and, like, I'm taking time away from our new family unit. Totally. Anyway, sorry.

Yeah. And I think we've also talked about, like, I think very important in those early weeks of, being both fully present in the learning her and learning, like, our new way of life, but also being vocal with each other about I just need some alone time. So it's like and if work is what you wanna do with your alone time, then that's totally your prerogative. If what I wanna do during my alone time is, like, take a shower and,

like Well, and and that watch

a movie, then that's fine too.

We we obviously don't know exactly how the post party's gonna go. That's how we've been We've

on a post party.

Instead of post partum, which just kinda sounds like a little bit depressing. Like, it's the post party.

It's the post party.

It's not gonna feel good, but Aw. But like, I know that I am going to I'm gonna do everything in our household for, let's call it at a minimum three weeks. And so I'm I'm okay with that. Like, it's totally fine that I I'm happy to support you in that way. You've done so much for nine months.

The least I can do is for three weeks, like pick up all the slack. But I think in that, it's also, you know, realizing too, like, great. So, you know, what is it that you need and that's going to change every single week, right? Like the first week we've already talked about like, you know, we again, we don't know exactly how it's gonna go, but you're probably gonna stay in our bed in our bedroom Yep. The entire time.

And so it's like, great. Like, how can I not make that a miserable experience for you? That's why we've been calling the post party. So it's been like, okay, like, what's a fun thing I could do every day that's like more than just the chores and like changing all the diapers, but it's like

Something to look forward

to. Yeah. Something fun that's like, okay, I can have Chatchippity help me create a Family Feud style game for disaster movie questions. Yeah. You know?

And it's like something stupid like that, but it is also just like a moment of joy every day to look forward to. And so it's like, I think the beginning of, you know, our new family unit will look like that. I think getting back to the question of work and childcare, so much of this is like, we have a plan now, but also we've loosely been talking about like, you know, you don't know how you're gonna feel as a mom.

Like Well, totally.

Maybe you're not gonna wanna do a lot of work Totally.

In the

worst early times.

Right. Going back to what has surprised me is like, especially this past month, stepping away from business stuff and going fully into focusing on mom mode, I have enjoyed the focus of just being able to focus on her and like, you know, and so I don't know. Our roles might shift a little bit and like maybe I do wanna take off a little bit more time before I come back. Knowing that, like, I'm I I don't foresee myself being someone who is not going to want to do any work

Right.

At all. But I don't

know. Yeah.

Really don't know how I'm gonna feel. And so, again, our plan is three months together, definitely, like, off. And then when November, December rolls around, like, easing back in kind of transition. And then January is like, okay, back to work. But knowing that maybe that's only Jason back to work.

Maybe that's yeah.

So

but we as far as childcare goes, we are planning to transition after our night nurse into someone who comes, like a nanny, the day, just to help out so that we can work and have that option.

Yeah. And again, like that boils down to we've been waiting such a long time to do this so that we have the financial means to do that, so that it creates time and space for us to be able to have still our own lives and our own passions and desires while also having help to make sure that our baby is getting as much support as they can possibly get. So it's like, we're not just two tired parents. And again, I'm not saying this is a bad thing that people do. I'm just saying we have the ability to do it.

So we're looking forward to that where we do have a little bit more freedom and space to invest in ourselves as well as kind of like our family unit.

Yeah. And then at some point transitioning to like, what they call here, creche, is like preschool, just to get some of that.

And that's at like three?

You can do it before three.

Oh, okay. Cool.

Yeah.

Can't wait them can't wait for them to get a part time job before three, you know? Okay. Cool. So that's that. And then the final question here is what will be the deal with baby citizenship?

Oh, loaded questions.

Which is very tricky. At the moment, if we can get the baby out before September

What's really wild is they basically are in the process of changing the laws here. So this whole time since we've moved here in late twenty twenty two, the rule has been that basically if you're if you as the parents have been here at least a year, I think was the threshold. Even if you're not Portuguese citizens, if you have the baby here and you've been here a year, they will be automatically dual citizens. So like they will get Portuguese citizenship. They would be also US citizens, so they'll they'll be dual citizens.

That has always been the plan. Now, funny enough, we're pregnant, second trimester. They decide to introduce this new law change before the summer. I think this was like back in maybe June or May. Introduce it into like parliament to adjust the

Requirements, essentially.

Requirements to where you would have to be here for

It's like five years or seven years to

begin. Three years.

It's all up in the air. Like, it's basically what the proposal was is the getting rid of the one year thing

Yeah. Exactly. Essentially. So, basically, then our baby wouldn't be automatically a Portuguese citizen. And so we were kind of like, oh, no.

That really sucks that we, like, kind of just the timing happened to work out to where this law changed. Did a little bit more digging and realized, again, we're we're new here, so we're not super well versed on the civics of Portugal, which we're gonna have to be because that's another thing they added. It's like you have to be fully well versed on how the government works and everything. But anyway, similar to The US in the sense that they can't just introduce a law and then it's law. Right.

They have to it goes to, like, parliament. They argue. The different parties, like, argue for different, you know, clauses and things like that. And then it has to, like, pass by a vote and yada yada yada. And so the the good news is that it's August right now.

So the, I guess, what you would call Congress is like the most US equivalent is out kind of for summer.

Holiday. Yep.

And so it hasn't gone into law yet.

Yeah. I think from last I heard, it was basically like September 10 or something like that was like the earliest.

And that's when they start arguments.

And it's like a two week period that it's open for. So we may get very lucky and that if our baby is born before that

Yeah.

We but again, I don't know when we do the paperwork for it either.

That first week we do the paperwork.

Yeah. It's it's a very like It's

gonna be down to the wire.

It's super, super interesting.

Best case scenario is that they will accept her under the old kind of regime, and she will get a Portuguese passport, and so she will have and she'll get a US passport, so she'll be a dual citizen.

Yeah. So, yeah. I don't we we have this written down in a doc somewhere. I don't remember it exactly because I don't need to remember it at this very moment. But essentially, it's like, we do the Portuguese kind of like thing.

We go to like whatever the government office is for that with her, get that set up, and then we almost immediately do the US embassy one as Exactly. And so she, you know, ends up with both passports, then like we can start gallivanting around Mhmm. You know, right after that, hitting all the hotspots, you know?

Yep. She's on

the That's how

it works.

But, yeah. Alright. I think that's all the questions. I think that's all the things.

Thanks for your interest in our child.

Maybe another five weeks before we have a podcast episode. So if you listen this far in, I hope you enjoyed it. I did actually get a couple messages from different people who've said they've started going back and listening to, like, episodes years ago just to because they they missed out on the podcast. I was like, oh, that's so sweet. You know, I think we we will definitely only be doing one episode, two, maybe three episodes in the next couple months, maybe.

Yeah. Just to give you an update on how this huge life transition is going. And we're very excited to meet her and just to have her be real.

Yeah.

She's just like a little thought right now. Mean Exactly. She's more than a thought based on her

Karate role kicks.

Karate kicks.

Yeah.

For me right now. But this has already been such a wild journey different than what I expected. And so I can only imagine from here on out, it's gonna all be different than what we expected.

For sure. Yeah. It's gonna be interesting. Alright. Well, let's everybody put put your, like, good vibes out there that our baby won't be bald until she's two we were both bald

until two. We were both bald until two.

I have If that's the one thing we could request, that would

be great. Yeah. I I it's funny because, like, I never thought I'd be like a a hair bow mom.

Yeah.

But I just I see these little headbands with bows on them, and I can't help it because I'm like Oh. That baby's gonna be bald. And also, all of her clothes are very gender neutral. And so I'm like, I just I just want people to be like, oh, is she a boy or a girl?

Just wearing headbands. Yeah. Alright. Well, thanks for all the questions, everybody. We appreciate all the support.

And if you, you know, wanna get an update on the baby, just stick around to the podcast, don't unsubscribe anytime soon, and we'll have an episode maybe in another five weeks or so. We'll see.

We'll see.

Alrighty, that's it.

Bye.