248 - What’s changed with launches?

[00:00:00] Caroline: Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help online creators like you build a calm business, one that's predictable, profitable, and peaceful. We're your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an unboring business coaching program, and Teachery, an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.

[00:00:29] Jason: All right, cinnamon rollers, that's you. Let's get into the show. Here we are back at the podcast. It's like our little... Like a little pod camp. Like, it's like...

[00:00:42] Caroline: What's up?

[00:00:43] Jason: We're in, like, pod camp. Like, we're in the little cabin with, like, a little microphones and, like, we come in here.

[00:00:47] Caroline: What's the camp part?

[00:00:48] Jason: It's just we're all together at camp.

[00:00:51] Caroline: 'Cause it's the summer?

[00:00:51] Jason: Exactly. Great job. Way to keep up.

[00:00:53] Caroline: Okay, podcamp. Sure.

[00:00:56] Jason: Before we jump into the preamble. Pre pramble to the pramble, do you have a favorite summer movie that you remember as a kid? Like, it was just like, a movie that, like... Like, you watched it and you were like, oh, this is just like, what summer feels like.

[00:01:10] Caroline: Two movies that came to my brain just now that were completely different. 

[00:01:14] Jason: Sure. 

[00:01:15] Caroline: One of them is just Independence Day, like, immediately when you said that, I was just like. That is like summer blockbuster of my youth, like Independence Day. Another one, randomly that just came to my mind was a movie that you've probably never seen called Now and Then.

[00:01:29] Jason: Now and Then.

[00:01:30] Caroline: This is a girlhood staple. Okay. It's like, about a group of girlfriends.

[00:01:33] Jason: Okay.

[00:01:34] Caroline: And they're, like, all grown up now, but then there's flashbacks. And, like, a lot of the movie takes place, like, over the summer.

[00:01:38] Jason: This has no Traveling Pants?

[00:01:40] Caroline: Yeah. This is like a precursor to Traveling Pants, but very in the Traveling Pants, like, genre.

[00:01:44] Jason: Okay, got it. Okay. So because this is the pre preamble to the preamble. So it's just quick. So Independence Day and  Now and Then.

[00:01:51] Caroline: Yeah. I'm gonna watch Now and Then again.

[00:01:53] Jason: Fantastic. Independence Day is the correct answer, just so you're aware. Uh, for some reason...

[00:01:58] Caroline: Yes, I got it.

[00:01:59] Jason: Mine is Can't Hardly Wait.

[00:02:01] Caroline: Whoa.

[00:02:02] Jason: It's just like... It's like, nothing to do with summer. But it's just like, for some reason to me, it's like... 

[00:02:06] Caroline: When you just said Can't Hardly Wait, I thought Wild Things.

[00:02:09] Jason: Oh, okay. Yeah, sure. I mean...

[00:02:10] Caroline: I was like. I mean, okay... 

[00:02:12] Jason: There's a pool. 

[00:02:13] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:02:13] Jason: There's a pool in both.

[00:02:14] Caroline: I mean, I know what the pool is in Wild Things. What's the pool in Can't Hardly Wait? 

[00:02:16] Jason: I think they just go in the pool.

[00:02:18] Caroline: By the way, I've never seen Wild Things, but I just know... 

[00:02:20] Jason: You know the Denise Richards of it all.

[00:02:22] Caroline: Like, I was like definitely too young to like know what was up.

[00:02:25] Jason: I've actually never seen it either. We should watch it.

[00:02:27] Caroline: I don't know, man.

[00:02:28] Jason: You still at, at 43 and 37, you don't think we can? 

[00:02:32] Caroline: Thirty seven childhood music. Patty will find out.

[00:02:35] Jason: Patty's your mom.

[00:02:35] Caroline: My mom.

[00:02:36] Jason: Okay, that was the preamble to the pramble. Feel free to send in your summer movies that just make you feel like, oh, it's summer now. And I don't know again, don't know why Can't Hardly Wait is that for me, but Independence Day is the right answer. 

[00:02:46] Caroline: We should also save that as the question of the week in... for our WAIM Weekly next week.

[00:02:50] Jason: It's too, too bad I already did it here. That can't exist in two places. That's a singularity. All right. I have a very silly...

[00:02:57] Caroline: My new thing is just gonna be following sentences with and that's a singularity.

[00:03:01] Jason: For sure. I have a very silly preamble top.

[00:03:05] Caroline: I would love for you to tell this story.

[00:03:07] Jason: Which I shared with you.

[00:03:08] Caroline: You shared with me on our walk yesterday so nonchalantly that it put me into a giggle fit that I thought I might like...

[00:03:13] Jason: Yeah. Okay, so there's a gigantic hill by our house that goes down to the beach. It's about a, a, a eight minute casual walk from our door to the beach. But you got to go down this big hill, which means you got to come back up the hill. It's about a 13 minute uncasual walk going back up the hill to come back.

[00:03:32] Caroline: What is the incline degree, would you say?

[00:03:34] Jason: Honestly?

[00:03:35] Caroline: Honestly?

[00:03:36] Jason: 50, 70.

[00:03:37] Caroline: Over 45 degree angle.

[00:03:38] Jason: It's an, it's an incredibly large incline. Like your, your car, no matter what car you have, is like, I don't know if I could do this.

[00:03:44] Caroline: That kind of hill.

[00:03:45] Jason: And it's, it's big. So I walk that hill a couple times a week for exercise. And it started out as just like one hill climb a week because that was enough. And now that we've lived here for two and a half years, I typically do four to six hill climbs a week. Four if I'm just feeling like a baby namby pamby, and six if I'm like, I want to work out you know, I'm... I'm out here and... 

[00:04:03] Caroline: Where are you on the bro scale?

[00:04:05] Jason: Exactly. But most of the time I am at a four because it's enough. Like, it's a pretty hard workout and it's like 40 minutes. And I'm just like...

[00:04:11] Caroline: You don't have to be a hero.

[00:04:12] Jason: Anyway, um, and I don't run the hill. I just walk it 'cause I have terrible knees. So every once in a while, some... some folks in our neighborhood join me. And this is very once in a while. But there's a younger guy who joined me now twice, did the hill walk. And he's Dutch, and he's...

[00:04:26] Caroline: Younger, being...?

[00:04:27] Jason: 23. He's 20 years younger than I am. Um, but he does not do, like, these types of exercises. He... He... And so the first time that we did it, it was like, oh, wow, this is hard. And the second time we did it again, I didn't go full pace. Anyway, so we... we obviously chat the whole time that we're walking. And again, he's 20 years younger than me, but he works in online business stuff, whatever. So we're just chatting, and this past time, he was like, hey, can I ask you a question? And I was like, yeah. He was like...

[00:04:52] Caroline: You think he's probably like...

[00:04:53] Jason: Yeah, just like, where's this gonna go? Yeah. He's like, how did you hear about that glasses brand, Mellor, that you're wearing? And I, like, took off the glasses and I look at them. I was like, honestly, I didn't even know where this brand was from. I just literally got fed an Instagram ad when we moved here. I didn't own sunglasses two and a half years ago. And so I bought them because they were very affordable sunglasses. Like, we're talking like 30 bucks per pair.

[00:05:14] Caroline: That Portuguese sun. You need sunglasses.

[00:05:15] Jason: And I was like, why do you ask? He was like, oh, it's a Dutch brand. And I was like, oh, cool. He was like, that mostly just young women buy. And I, I... You start dying laughing. But I, I did ask him. I said, okay, I don't remember clearly two and a half years ago what the ads were, but I know for a fact men were wearing the sunglasses, because otherwise I wouldn't have bought just women's sunglasses. And he was like...

[00:05:38] Caroline: You could.

[00:05:38] Jason: He was like, yeah. No, he was like. He was like, they... they do make them for men.

[00:05:42] Caroline: But it's just...

[00:05:43] Jason: It's just all, like, Dutch girlies wear them.

[00:05:45] Caroline: You told me this very nonchalantly, which you are saying it very nonchalantly here.

[00:05:49] Jason: Yeah, it really hit you.

[00:05:51] Caroline: It hit me in the funny bone because I told Jason what I was picturing is... And this is just like, the funny part about, like, the cross, cross cultural stuff. Like, you're coming into a European culture where you, like, don't know the trends, you don't know what the norms are. You don't know the brands, you don't know anything. And I am just picturing, like, somebody, like, moving to America. And, like, dude just buys, like, really comfy, like, Juicy Couture, like, tracksuit pants.

[00:06:17] Jason: Yeah.

[00:06:17] Caroline: You know, the furry kind that, like, the rhinestones on the butt?

[00:06:19] Jason: Says Juicy across the booty.

[00:06:20] Caroline: Okay. Obviously this is an exaggeration example, but, like... And just being like, oh, these are so comfy.

[00:06:25] Jason: Yeah, I saw these.

[00:06:26] Caroline: And somebody being like, hey, just so you know, like, teenage girls are, like, the only people who buy these.

[00:06:29] Jason: Yeah.

[00:06:30] Caroline: And that was the equivalent that I had in my head of, like, you just, like, wearing these, like, teenage girl sunglasses.

[00:06:35] Jason: Yeah.

[00:06:35] Caroline: And they look great on you.

[00:06:37] Jason: For sure. I think they're great for value for money.

[00:06:41] Caroline: Value for money.

[00:06:41] Jason: This just happens to be marketed to and purchased by Dutch girlies.

[00:06:43] Caroline: I love Dutch girlies. First of all, you're a Dutch girly. Second of all, I love that he... you guys are friends, but you're not, like, great friends. So it had perplexed him enough.

[00:06:55] Jason: Yeah, he... he definitely saw them on the first walk.

[00:06:56] Caroline: That he didn't have the confidence to ask. And, like, this is, like, the third or fourth walk, and he was like, I gotta get... I gotta let him know about the sunglasses.

[00:07:03] Jason: So anyway.

[00:07:04] Caroline: That really got me on my funny bone.

[00:07:06] Jason: My question to everybody before we get to Carol's paramel top is, what is your Dutch girly product that maybe you buy that you don't think you should be buying?

[00:07:14] Caroline: Oh, like, you know, you're not the target demo, but you're like, I love this.

[00:07:17] Jason: Yeah. Okay.

[00:07:18] Caroline: I don't think I have one.

[00:07:19] Jason: I don't think you have one either. All right, let's go for your pramble top. What do you got?

[00:07:22] Caroline: Okay. Things have gotten real. The thing that I want to preamble top about is we in the past week have really escalated into, like, a new section of pregnancy that I just want to share.

[00:07:36] Jason: Just so everyone knows you're pregnant... in case everyone missed it. 

[00:07:39] Caroline: If you are just turning in... Turning in? Tuning in. I am 25 weeks pregnant as of recording this, and I, throughout the whole second trimester have felt, like, very cliche, amazing.

[00:07:52] Jason: Yeah.

[00:07:52] Caroline: Like, suddenly I'm not nauseous anymore. I have all the energy in the world. Like it's fun. You... The baby starts looking like a baby and not just like a blob. All the great things, fun things. Okay. In the past week I have. And you told me this.

[00:08:08] Jason: Right.

[00:08:08] Caroline: You're always the one who's telling me what's about to happen my body 'cause I don't check in and you have this little ChatGPT thing that like gives...

[00:08:13] Jason: Yeah, that and I'm reading a book and it's going week by week. 

[00:08:16] Caroline: And you're reading a book. That's something I should be doing and I was doing and I just want to make that clear. But then Jason started telling me and it was cuter. So he does that now. And so he's like, just so you know, like the... I think it was like week 20 to 24 something. It was like you're going to go through... like the baby's going through a growth spurt. I think you said it was like going to double or triple or quadruple or something in weight.

[00:08:34] Jason: Yeah. I think in the next... I can't remember the specific...

[00:08:37] Caroline: Anyway, there was a substantial curve of growth and... and I, so I was like, oh yeah, cool. Like exciting. Okay. I am now, now approaching the moment where I'm like oh, I have reached that. That is what's happening.

[00:08:51] Jason: You are pregnant.

[00:08:52] Caroline: Because in the past week like I am now feeling not comfy, I'll tell you that. And I always knew like... and I'm not even at the third trimester yet. And I was like, I know that the third trimester is like not comfortable. Like you look at pregnant people and you're like that can't be comfortable, you know. So I was like mentally preparing for it. Wasn't ready for when it started this early.

[00:09:10] Jason: Yeah. Or for it to happen to you. It's also the thing where it's like, like I haven't felt that discomfort to know what the discomfort feels like. 

[00:09:17] Caroline: It's my first pregnancy so I'm sort of like, I mean it's not my first pregnancy but you know what I mean?

[00:09:22] Jason: Yeah.

[00:09:22] Caroline: Yeah. And so I think. And we also like... I think I had Braxton Hicks contractions yesterday. I'm not sure cuz I never had them before but we will see if they come back then we will be able to further discern. But it very strange roller coaster to be on just with your body. And I honestly think the second trimester was such a freaking double... Like a... 

[00:09:43] Jason: Well, that's how they get you.

[00:09:44] Caroline: False sense of... that's how they get you.

[00:09:46] Jason: That's how they get you. The first trimester, they show you, hey, this is going to be tough. The second trips are, like, it's fine. And third trimester are, like, by the way, we're going back to, it's tough.

[00:09:53] Caroline: That's how they get you.

[00:09:53] Jason: Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:54] Caroline: So I just wanted to check in with everybody. I know that I've really been making it sound like a breeze, and to be quite honest, it was a little bit of a breeze.

[00:10:02] Jason: It was breezy.

[00:10:02] Caroline: I can't breeze anymore.

[00:10:03] Jason: But that's... that's how this works. Also, we're at 24 weeks this week.

[00:10:07] Caroline: No, 25.

[00:10:08] Jason: This week started...?

[00:10:09] Caroline: Sunday started 25...

[00:10:10] Jason: Okay. That's right. Yeah. Gotcha. Because that's how I knew about the Braxton Hicks.

[00:10:13] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:10:14] Jason: Yeah. Okay, great. Well, I'm. I'm glad to hear that. So it sounds like...

[00:10:18] Caroline: But it is really exciting. We did. We did start feeling her kick.

[00:10:21] Jason: Oh, yeah.

[00:10:22] Caroline: Which is, like, super alien and weird, but also now I've gotten used to it. And it's very fun because it's like she's, like, saying hi, like, in the morning and the evening.

[00:10:30] Jason: Yeah. Also, just so everyone who's listening to this is aware you probably have, like, three, four, maybe five more podcast episodes until Carol's out. Like, I just, like...

[00:10:41] Caroline: Very true.

[00:10:41] Jason: You're... You might...

[00:10:42] Caroline: See the future.

[00:10:43] Jason: Exactly. Yeah. I think those are going to become short Jason update episodes.

[00:10:46] Caroline: I also fear for you because something I did, like, learn about myself last night when I was deeply uncomfortable is, like, I feel like it was a glimpse of, like, how I think I will behave when I'm in labor.

[00:10:56] Jason: Yeah.

[00:10:57] Caroline: I'm a very vocal discomfort person. Like, it's like I have to get the discomfort out of my body somehow. So it's like, even last night, I couldn't stop myself. I was, like, trying to load the dishwasher, and I was so deeply uncomfortable because my belly was so hard. And I just kept being like... Like, I was like, carol, stop. Like, why are you doing that? And I was just like, I gotta get it out.

[00:11:17] Jason: Yeah. We're the exact opposite in this. Any pain or discomfort I feel, I just bury it down so deep. And your body's just, like, can't hold it any longer. And there's no... Neither of the... I mean, I think yours is healthier, but I'm saying, like, neither of those is, like, the right way to handle it. It's just like, the way that we handle it.

[00:11:33] Caroline: It's just very funny. I've seen enough like birth stories, to know that some people are... Get super quiet. They go super... And some people, like, get very vocal. Like there's a whole spectrum. And I was like, oh, this is just interesting to see how your brain and body react to discomfort.

[00:11:48] Jason: Yeah.

[00:11:48] Caroline: And so I fear for you because...

[00:11:50] Jason: Yeah, I fear for myself.

[00:11:51] Caroline: Yeah. Okay, so we're just... that's where we are.

[00:11:53] Jason: Sorry. I got a big work conference that weekend. All right, let's get into... 

[00:11:56] Caroline: Ew. The term work conference during giving birth.

[00:11:59] Jason: A lot of PowerPoints I got to check out.  

[00:12:00] Caroline: A lot of PowerPoints.

[00:12:01] Jason: All right, let's get into this episode here. And we are trying to keep these next couple episodes a little bit shorter, mostly for Carol's ability to sit in one spot for an extended period of time. An hour sitting and talking is not necessarily possible. So if these episodes feel like...

[00:12:16] Caroline: I didn't know we're going to be too exerted.

[00:12:18] Jason: Exactly. But it's also... Yeah, I think it's just discomfort. So if you feel like, oh, wow, like they, you know, this is only like 30 minutes or less. That's the reasoning why is we're trying to be a little bit more...

[00:12:28] Caroline: Bites. 

[00:12:29] Jason: Just aware of how you're feeling. So, anyway, this episode we wanted to kind of talk about because this is our last ever launch of WAIM Unlimited that we are gearing up for as of recording this. We've been doing this specific type of launching for, I think, what is it like? 13 launches now? I can't remember what it is. Something like that. Something about that amount of launches. Since 2018, we've done some form of launching with this business Wandering Aimfully. And so we wanted to share was kind of like a... a look back or... or maybe a look now at, like, what's still working, like, what's still still relevant. And what do we think you should be really paying attention to if you are launching right now and just kind of like, our overall thoughts on, like, what's changing as people who have done a lot more launches than most people probably have.

[00:13:15] Caroline: Yeah, for sure. And we did. I remember we did a podcast episode that was all about, like, what's changing about online business in general. But this one's a little bit more specific to launching. So if you're someone who wants to be doing live launches for your digital products, by the way, there's still plenty of people in our community who are having successful launches. 

[00:13:31] Jason: For sure. I don't. I don't think these are going to go away. Like, I think product launches are going to continue to happen.

[00:13:35] Caroline: I think so, too.

[00:13:36] Jason: For a long time. As long as we're all buying and selling... 

[00:13:39] Caroline: Question is like, what? How is the landscape change now?

[00:13:42] Jason: Yeah.

[00:13:43] Caroline: And what's worth investing your time in and like what maybe isn't.

[00:13:46] Jason: Cool. Okay, so let's talk about just... And again, we're going to focus just on like a live launch, not like evergreen setup. So if you're curious about that, maybe we'll do a different episode. But this specifically is, you know, the things that we have learned when you're doing a launch that has an open and closed cart, a certain amount of days, etc. And I think the, the one of the biggest things we'll start with this kind of the number one is what we used to be, okay. I'm doing a two week launch. I don't want to oversaturate my email list with sales emails. So I'm going to send maybe like five, seven, maybe nine and like a two week launch.

[00:14:19] Caroline: Yeah. I think when we started out, I want to say maybe there was like seven.

[00:14:23] Jason: I think there was seven. I think there were seven emails. And like maybe we did two on the last day and that felt aggressive.

[00:14:28] Caroline: Like two in one day.

[00:14:29] Jason: Yeah. And I think that the huge change that we have seen and maybe you have all seen this is like everyone's inbox is a little less precious to them these days. And we're all accustomed to getting a lot more email.

[00:14:41] Caroline: Which by the way, I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm not saying that that's like, yay, everybody gets more email. Like the digital clutter is definitely a problem, but if you zoom the lens out, I think that it's important to recognize that this fear that you might have once had about like someone's going to be really turned off by like whatever is like people are giving more kind of leeway and permission to be contacted more frequently because they are inundated with so many messages. And so if it is something that they want, a lot of times they're like thankful for the reminders, honestly.

[00:15:14] Jason: Yeah. And so I think the, the big shift for us is like in a two week launch, what used to be a five, seven, nine day email sequence over the course of what a launch ends up being like 15 days. We just sent an email every day now.

[00:15:26] Caroline: Yeah. And I think the first time that we sent an email every single day was I think three launches ago.

[00:15:31] Jason: Yeah.

[00:15:31] Caroline: Because we used to like skip a day here, skip a day there. But then we just started. We'll talk about launch events in a minute. We just started seeing that people really needed launch events. And so in order to announce those launch events throughout the entire launch, you know, more emails were necessary. And in case you're curious and you haven't heard us talk about it before, we specifically do a two week launch window.

[00:15:51] Jason: Yeah.

[00:15:52] Caroline: This is because our product is a little bit higher price. People need more time to make the decision. And we like having those multiple touch points.

[00:16:00] Jason: Yeah. And. And I would say, I think the other thing that has changed too is we kind of used to always just send like longer emails that were like really thorough and really in depth because people spent more time in their inboxes, like they were really consuming and reading longer...

[00:16:12] Caroline: And we were like trying to weave in value at the same time. We didn't want it to just be go buy our thing, go buy our thing. It was always like, what's a story you can tell? And like, so there was a lot we were trying to do with those emails.

[00:16:23] Jason: Yeah. And I think just like the natural progression of more email means more skimming because people are trying to read through their emails and so they're just skimming more. So what we really do in, in our launch email sequence is like, it's a varied, like some are long, some are short, some are really short. And then, you know, maybe the first and kind of like the last email of the launch are a little bit longer, a little bit more value, a little bit more, you know, in depth. But really we know we're not going to hold someone's attention span for every email anymore. And so for you listening to this, if you're, if you're writing a sales email sequence, by the way, shout out to our Prompt Pack that we have at wanderingaimfully.com that has our exact prompt that writes a sales sequence for you and like gives you specific emails.

[00:17:03] Caroline: Get that for free inside of WAIM Unlimited in case you're...

[00:17:05] Jason: You absolutely can. It makes that your job a lot easier. But I think also just knowing that these emails being different lengths and going out every day during a launch, that's just like the big change of what we have now that we didn't have before.

[00:17:20] Caroline: Yeah. So yeah, be... if you're one of those people who is like very, very nervous to email people every single day, I'm telling you, if you do want your product launches to do better, try it for a launch, see how it feels. And also the thing that we've been saying for years is just to remind you that if someone's sticking around to your content and they only want your free content, and they're going to be pissed off if you're sending emails about your paid product instead of just ignoring it and moving along and being like, oh, I'm just here for the free content, that is not a person you want in your audience anyway because it's like you're not just existing to shell out free content. 

[00:17:55] Jason: It's like...

[00:17:55] Caroline: You're here to build a business. And so...

[00:17:57] Jason: Yeah, it's like you run a little cafe and you got that person only coming in for the free tasters. They never buy anything and they just always come in for free taste. And you're just like, hey.

[00:18:05] Caroline: And are you...?

[00:18:06] Jason: I can't give you free tasters forever, my guy. 

[00:18:07] Caroline: Are you going to like take their opinion very much? Not really.

[00:18:10] Jason: We got to sell them a handcrafted frappuccino that we hand churn. All right, let's keep going here. We have a bunch more that we want to cover. So the next one is more launch events or kind of like what we call carrots throughout the launch. And this is definitely something that I know we have seen change in like the past three years specifically is what used to be just a set of sales emails that were just about your offer.

[00:18:32] Caroline: Exactly.

[00:18:32] Jason: And it was just plucking out like different benefits, different outcomes, different case studies and it was all about like the offer itself.

[00:18:39] Caroline: Yeah. Imagine like the thing that you wanted people to know is the doors are open to this thing and they close at this date and here's are all the reasons why you might want to buy this thing. That's what the whole sequence was about.

[00:18:49] Jason: Yeah.

[00:18:50] Caroline: Now we've seen that if you, if you do that approach, especially over a two week window, you are going to have major sales lulls because people tune out. 

[00:18:59] Jason: Sales. You said goals.

[00:19:00] Caroline: I said lulls. 

[00:19:01] Jason: Lulls, got it. Okay. 

[00:19:04] Caroline: Different than LOLs.

[00:19:05] Jason: Different than L-O-Ls.

[00:19:05] Caroline: But lulls. You're going to see those sales drop and have major dips. Dips is maybe a better word. And so one thing that we experimented with probably, I mean, a few years ago that really has worked, is strategically placing these launch events, quote unquote, throughout the two weeks, which gives you something new to get excited about in the email. So it's like that novelty, that announcement energy. Like it could be, hey, I'm doing a webinar. It could be, hey, I'm offering a bonus. It could be, hey, we added a new feature to this offer, like those type of newsworthy announcements.

[00:19:38] Jason: Yeah. And I think like as you look across like a two week launch window, you know the way that we kind of prescribe it to, to people is if you're going to do some type of discount, you do like an early bird, like 48 hour only to start the launch. Like that's the discount window. And then a couple days later you kind of, you do some type of like live thing whether it's a webinar or a call or you know, whatever.

[00:20:01] Caroline: Preview.

[00:20:01] Jason: Yep. And yeah like a free preview of your offer. Then you get into like is there, is there a bonus thing? And this is what we call JICLIs which are just in case launch bonuses. But it's, it's something that you can offer that kind of like oh it...

[00:20:14] Caroline: Sweetens the deal.

[00:20:15] Jason: Sweetens the deal for people. And I think the way to, to, to again really think about this is what used to work in the past was just you just needed touch points for people to hear about the offer enough. Now you need touchpoint plus.

[00:20:26] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:20:26] Jason: Like you just need one more thing to get people to really see that the value is there. And again it's mostly not because people aren't buying digital products or anything like that right now. It's because they have so many buying decisions to make in a day because we're just over inundated with things to buy. And that it really has to stand out in them being discerning with how they're going to spend their money.

[00:20:44] Caroline: Yeah. And they have to really feel like the value is there and, and just from the attention aspect of something new and noteworthy feels like a reason to open my email versus just oh, here's another way of saying buy my thing.

[00:20:57] Jason: Yeah. So didn't have to do launch events early on. You know, a couple of years ago weren't even thinking about this and now it's like can't do a launch...

[00:21:04] Caroline: It's non negotiable.

[00:21:05] Jason: Yeah. So definitely need to think about your launch events and how you can kind of pepper those throughout.

[00:21:10] Caroline: All right, let's move on to number three which again has always been a tried and true tactic. So this is one thing that has not changed. But I think the thing that has changed about it is that it is a non negotiable now. It used to be like oh, if you like decided to skimp and it's pre marketing, pre launch content. If you decide to skimp on your pre marketing you could still end up doing a good launch. I don't think that you are going to meet your sales goals if you don't have some sort of pre launch content. And we've seen it. I mean the launches where we don't do pre launch content.

[00:21:43] Jason: Yeah.

[00:21:44] Caroline: Are always the worst ones.

[00:21:45] Jason: Yeah. And we, we have a bunch of people in our wandering for the community who they constantly will tell us, you know, they'll, they'll do a launch and be like, oh like how to go? And they're like oh like I had a thing pop up and like I couldn't actually do any pre marketing this time and I was just curious that that was going to actually make a difference. And like boy did it make a difference. Like I just noted from the last launch to this launch, like so many less sales.

[00:22:06] Caroline: Which by the way has happened to us. Like there's plenty of good reasons why you don't want to push yourself so hard to do pre launch content. And as someone who's doing a daily Instagram series right now, it, it adds a lot of work to your plate. However, I do think that that work like pays off in dividends.

[00:22:20] Jason: Yeah. And I think as you think about prelaunch content, just very simply, it's the four weeks leading up to your launch sending some type of like behind the scenes look, plucking out like a really important lesson from the thing that you're teaching. Just pulling some type of information that's going to get someone excited, that you are getting them ready, that that offer exists and you're getting them really just like ready to go. Like you were in the reel that we had that, that went well about like how movie studios build buzz about movies. It's just thinking about like the teaser, the trailer, the things. Like it's, it's conceptually trying to figure out this stuff that can get people excited about things.

[00:22:56] Caroline: And I think one of the big reasons why that is now a non negotiable is again what a lot of these things allude to, which is just the attention breakthrough that you need in order for someone to even know that you are about to do a launch. Like if you wait until day one to try and get someone's attention, you're not going to have enough opportunities to break through the noise in order they might find out on the last day that your thing is available and that's not enough time for them to make a decision.

[00:23:23] Jason: Yeah.

[00:23:24] Caroline: So it's like you really need that month before to kind of like keep breaking through the noise to even get someone's attention to be like, hey, this thing is opening. Here's then it's like one step deeper. This is what it is. One step deeper. Like this is why it's Going to make your life better. I mean, there's so many messages you have to get through in a cluttered, noisy media world. So give yourself the amount of time to do that.

[00:23:46] Jason: Yeah, yeah. It, it makes me think about, you know, like, let's say we were creating a course on like this is very topical because you know, we just did a coaching session on it. But like how to use Canva to create presentations. That was our last coaching session in Wandering Aimfully. And like if that was our course and let's say it was like a 12 lesson course and it like went through like all the different things that we talked about in the coaching session. If I was doing pre marketing for that, I would basically pluck out like four of the most impactful like tips that we talk about throughout the course. And those would be my, my emails for the four weeks leading up. So I'd be like, hey, did you know that you can do like this way of finding more images that are related to other images that you like? Here are like three ways you can do that. Um, and again, I'm not gonna go over all these things but like that's exactly how I'd frame those emails that I think would be really helpful for people and get them really excited.

[00:24:33] Caroline: For sure. And like, and by the way, I can't, I don't have time to share like the full in depth tutorial. But that's what we go into in the course.

[00:24:39] Jason: Yeah, for sure.

[00:24:39] Caroline: Right. So you're like connecting it.

[00:24:40] Jason: Yeah. All right, so first one, sending emails every day. Second one, launch events. Third one, you gotta do pre marketing. Non negotiable. If you don't do it and you just open up an enrollment or a sale for something, you're gonna have way less sales because people are just, they need the warmup period. Last two that we have here, what's the next one?

[00:24:56] Caroline: Well, this one's more of an optimistic one in terms of how launching has changed. And I will say it is much faster to execute a launch than it ever has been before thanks to the help of AI tools.

[00:25:08] Jason: Yeah, we were talking about this, I mean in previous launches because we typically used like a template of our sales emails. So we would like go off of a Google Doc and then I would essentially go through and like rewrite a first draft of like every one of the emails for the, for the sequence.

[00:25:23] Caroline: We were our own ChatGPT.

[00:25:25] Jason: Exactly. But like we were, we were working off of previous emails, but I would rewrite all of them. 

[00:25:29] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:25:29] Jason: Then we would, you know, essentially if we were creating a new sales page. You rewrite the full sales page from scratch and you kind of call everything together. This process would take from start to finish, two, maybe three weeks. Because you can't just work on this alone. You have other things. But it's like three total weeks to get from writing sales emails, writing sales page copy, putting all the emails into your email provider, queuing them up, and then also like creating your sales page. Three total weeks. Now, with AI, and especially because we have prompts that help for this, it's like we can write the sales emails and the sales copy for the sales page in an hour. I mean, literally one hour. And they're, they're like, first draft is ready and done.

[00:26:06] Caroline: Yeah. And I just want to be clear, in case anybody hasn't consumed any of our approach to AI, any content where we've talked about that, but we really try to use this, like, human led AI approach, which when Jason says, oh, it's so easy with ChatGPT, we can just plug in and go, that does not mean that we're saying, hey, write me a launch sequence. And we copy and paste that, we put it into our email provider and we call it a day, not by a long shot. We usually, how it works is we have like a first touch, last touch rule, which is first touch is like we sit down and write. What do we want to say about the launch? What it... what is the first draft of the copy? It doesn't have to be well structured. It doesn't, but it's just like, what are the things, the messages that are important? We use all of that context, all of the pain points that we have, you know, established with our audience into the prompts that we use to come up with the sales emails. Here's the general story arc we're thinking of. Here are some ideas that we have. Then ChatGPT is helping us come up with those first drafts. We are collaborating back and forth on shorter, longer. Can you wrap it in this arc? Can you add a hook at the top to get someone's attention? What are some subject line ideas? We're collaborating like that. And then at the end, like Jason said, we're then editing it from top to bottom so it sounds like in our voice. And so I just want to make that clear because I do think that there... You hear us say, you can do this faster than ever before. And maybe what you hear is, oh, just like spin up garbage. And it can be efficient. And like, that's not our approach to AI at all. We love using these tools. We think it's like, so amazing to live in an era where we have these tools that can amplify our creativity. But in order to not lose that human touch and that human connection, you have to infuse your humanity into it.

[00:27:49] Jason: Yeah, I think a perfect example of this is the, the new sales page for... or the final sales page for WAIM Unlimited that's going to go up on June 9th. And you won't see that as of this episode going live, but on June 9th it'll go up. I basically took... you wrote two emails that were pre marketing emails. Um, we had notes from a previous podcast episode. And then you... We had the copy that you wrote for our wait list page. I took those four things and I gave them all to ChatGPT and I said, like, here's a bunch of context for you to understand the sales page copy that I want to write. But also I have a vision in my head of, like, things are changing, like, shifting a lot in online business right now. And I want someone to feel like if they're reading this sales page that like, we're here to help people stay in the know about what's going on. And also, like, you can watch two people navigate this journey together. 

[00:28:38] Caroline: And stay grounded in themselves and not get overwhelmed in the process.

[00:28:41] Jason: And so, so basically ChatGPT, like wrote out like a full sales page for me. And I looked at it and I was like, okay, it's good because it brought all the information together and like put it in bullets and like, you know, formatted and everything. And I was like, but this doesn't sound like us at all. And even though it had all the context of like, the four things that we've written that were us. And so I then just open up an Apple note and I had the GPT, like kind of what I looked at as like a bulleted list of content for me available. And then I just wrote, in my words, the points I wanted to get across. And so I think that to me was like, that's a huge unlock that's very difficult to have done in the past where you have all this contextual information, but it's just sitting in your brain and it's sitting in these, like, other areas that you can't bring together. And so tools, AI tools, pull it all together, give you all the information, and then you can then rewrite. And so, and then I'd like... I'm actually very proud of the copy that I wrote for the sales page because I know it sounds like us and I know it doesn't sound like AI at all, and I know that because I wrote every single line myself.

[00:29:41] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:29:41] Jason: And so... And it all came from different, these, you know, collaborations, but that all happened in one day. Like, it didn't take weeks for that to happen and happened that fast.

[00:29:50] Caroline: Which is amazing.

[00:29:51] Jason: Yeah.

[00:29:51] Caroline: Yeah. So I think that's the optimistic part is, you know, if you're someone who has decided to embrace some of these tools, you can really use them. And, like, this is a phrase Jason and I have been tossing around a lot the past six months, but it's like...

[00:30:05] Jason: Dutch girly? Jason's a Dutch girly?

[00:30:06] Caroline: First and foremost. Dutch girly.

[00:30:08] Jason: Dutch girly.

[00:30:08] Caroline: Okay. Secondly, work faster so you can live slower. And so it's just this idea that, like, using these AI tools for us is not about trying to cram in more and more and more and more and more so that you can then work, like, more than you've ever have before. It's, wouldn't it be amazing if these tools now... now allowed you to get 10 hours of work done in two hours, and then the other eight hours you can spend with your family, walking outside, doing whatever things that you want to do. And that's sort of our... our approach. So the good news is, if you decide to embrace these tools, launching and all of the tasks associated can not only be faster, but also more fun. Like, I've never had more fun creating things. And it's because it doesn't have to feel like such a slog anymore.

[00:30:52] Jason: Yeah. You kind of get rid of all the like... like the first draft of it all, the blank cursor of it all, the like. And I think that's, for me, that's, like, always been really easy for me is the first draft of things. But it's even easier now because it's like I get a first draft of my own first draft.

[00:31:04] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:31:04] Jason: Which then gives you a better...

[00:31:06] Caroline: Totally.

[00:31:06] Jason: Version because I was always just gobbly cooking it together. Also, I will just say, like, as exciting as all these AI things, you know, are, one thing that I'm not sure we're gonna get to anytime soon is, like, I had a super specific vision for what I wanted the sales page to look and feel like.

[00:31:23] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:31:23] Jason: And I could not get, like, a Lovable type of tool to execute on that. Only you could do that.

[00:31:29] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:31:30] Jason: And I just think that, like, that's a perfect example of, like, these tools are amazing. And sure, in like, a year or two, maybe it'll be wildly different and, like, it'll be better. But as of right now, this moment in May 2025, it can't execute on those types of things. And that is where it's still the special sauce of you being a creative human.

[00:31:47] Caroline: And this is why when people say it's gonna take away our creativity, it's gonna make creativity obsolete. Like, I get the fear of that. And I... and I think that there are really real dangers about that. But I think that the critical thinking and problem solving that comes from a human brain is still going to be more important than ever. And it's why I'm so passionate about teaching people how to use these AI tools because it is a skill set. Like, it's not just like, oh, now it's magic and anybody can create anything they want. It's like, yes, there's the possibility of that, but you do have to develop the skill set of how to use them effectively. And so, you know. Yeah, it was really funny. Like, you were like, I don't. And you know, there were maybe some things behind the scenes of, like, Lovable was updating their models and who knows?

[00:32:30] Jason: Yeah. But even still, like, I...

[00:32:33] Caroline: But I got on there and I did a prompt and I was like, is this kind of like, what in your, like...? Yeah, that's what I was sort of feeling like.

[00:32:38] Jason: Yeah, exactly. So anyway, can't wait for you all to see the new sales page. I think it's awesome whether you're going to buy WAIM Unlimited or not. I'm just very proud of kind of like our last sales page that feels very unique and interesting.

[00:32:47] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:32:47] Jason: And it was done a lot faster than ever before. Okay. The final thing we wanted to talk about is...? 

[00:32:53] Caroline: The last thing, which we probably sound like a broken record, but we're going to remind you again that really being highly specific about the problem you solve and then having results to back up that solution.

[00:33:07] Jason: Yeah.

[00:33:08] Caroline: I think are just, like, more important than ever.

[00:33:10] Jason: I think admittedly one thing we talk about this, like, often internally is like, we've done such a bad job of capturing results from our members for years. We.... we are probably the worst example of a coaching program that does not capture the results. And there are plenty of results. And we just, we stay so heads down in other areas. And it's just an area of improvement that, like, we want, like, we want other people not to do what we do.

[00:33:32] Caroline: Yeah, exactly. And I think it's that when people tell us those results, we're so much more, like, interested in the human connection that that creates where we're like, so pumped up for them. We're so excited. We're like, exactly like you followed our advice. Fantastic. That like the last thing I want to do is be like, and...

[00:33:47] Jason: Right, yeah.

[00:33:48] Caroline: Can you do some extra work to like format this into a story that I can tell? Right. So it's like that's the part that we don't do as well. And it's funny if you listen to our like tool ideas that we have for next year, which by the way, after we recorded that episode, I was like, I have like five more tool ideas that are all better than those other ideas. But it's fine. You can hear the bad ideas first. But one of the bad ideas that I said that I still think there's a seed of in there was, was the, the capturing results or whatever because I'm like, this is a problem that we have.

[00:34:14] Jason: Yeah, exactly. So anyway, to, to kind of like bring back the point of this final point here about what has changed with launches is that, you know, a couple years ago you could get away with the fact that like you just have an offer and it's in a niche like, oh, I just have a notion template for productivity. Right. Like that could have done well enough for you and people would have bought that. But now it's like people need to know exactly, like, well, what about productivity? Like what specifically are you helping me do faster?

[00:34:39] Caroline: Yes. And I've been thinking about this and why do I think this has always sort of been true, but why is it so true right now? And I think it's because these three things are at an all time premium compared to where they have been, which is time, money and trust. And so it's like people have less time than ever before because there's never been more options of how to fill your time. People are struggling with how to spend their money because there's so many more things to pay for and wealth inequality and like, you know, wages stagnating and inflation and all these different economic factors. So people are being discerning with their money and then finally trust. So there's been enough garbage that people have purchased where it didn't get them the results they were looking for that now people are more discerning and they're like, I need you to show me that this is possible for me so that I know you're not just talking out of your ass.

[00:35:26] Jason: And I, I, yeah, I think for, if you're, if you're pivoting into a new offer and like it's your first launch of a new offer. It's really hard to have results to show, but that's also on you to have people go through your thing, to have success with it before you launch it, to have those case studies.

[00:35:43] Caroline: But this is why I also think this is kind of like related to this point. You and I have had many conversations where I feel like we are moving from a, an information age into like a storytelling and personal experimentation age. And so if I was starting an online business from scratch and I didn't have any results, instead of just saying, oh, I have this skill, let me go out and, and do this, or sell an offer around this, I would do some sort of experiment myself to get the results myself. Then I would start with a low priced offer around that result that I got for myself, see if I could replicate that result for other people, then get those case studies. Like that's how I would kind of scaffold the trust.

[00:36:25] Jason: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, let's recap these ideas because again, like I said, we got to keep these episodes like... Carol's over here squirming and worming and you can't see it.

[00:36:33] Caroline: She's kicking.

[00:36:34] Jason: Exactly. 

[00:36:34] Caroline: Saying, hi.

[00:36:35] Jason: You're kicking?

[00:36:36] Caroline: I'm kicking, she's kicking.

[00:36:37] Jason: Everyone's kicking. All right, so the biggest things we've seen change in launches in the past six years, eight years, you got to send emails every day during a live launch. So if you're doing a live launch for two weeks, just be okay with that. And if people unsubscribe, that's all right. You need to have more launch events. So you need to have more things throughout the launch that help you avoid the lulls, not LOLs. And things...

[00:36:57] Caroline: Don't avoid the LOLs.

[00:36:58] Jason: Really get people excited. Not just like an email saying like, here are the features, but like, here is an extra thing I'm throwing in, or here's a webinar you can come join or here's an early bird discount, or here's like a last, you know, offer part of the launch. You need to do your pre marketing four weeks leading up to your launch. You've got to be showing people what it is your thing does. You've got to be giving some value and you have to be telling people that they should be really excited about this because you're excited about it. Need to embrace these tools that make your life easier. So I know some of you who listen to this, you're against AI, that's totally fine. But there are other ways to kind of speed these processes up and to have better systems to work a little bit faster. 

[00:37:35] Caroline: Even if it means you're working off of old templates that you wrote. Like do that. 

[00:37:39] Jason: 100%. And and the last thing is that you just need to be more specific and you need to show more results to back up whatever it is the thing that you're selling. And again, don't follow our example because we're really bad at showing all of the results. But we know that you can do it if you put a system in a process in place to do that. All right, those are the things. And if you want to check it out, go to wanderingaimfully.com/join on June 9th. You'll see... WAIM Unlimited? wanderingaimfully.com/join.

[00:38:06] Caroline: Just try again.

[00:38:06] Jason: To check out. Hey, you listening to this? What's up? How's it going? Welcome to the podcast. I'm a Dutch girlie and I'm going to tell you to go to  wanderingaimfully.com/join if you want to check out our new sales page but also our last ever launch of our unboring coaching program and everything that is involved with it. You're at the end of the episode. I'm not going to give you a huge sales pitch. Just go check it out,  wanderingaimfully.com/join.

[00:38:27] Caroline: To be clear, the sale... the new sales page won't be up until June 9th.

[00:38:30] Jason: That's what I'm saying.

[00:38:31] Caroline: I know. But just to be clear.

[00:38:32] Jason: Dutch girlies out.