246 - The Future-Proof Creator (what still works in 2025?)

[00:00:00] Caroline: Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help online creators like you build a calm business, one that's predictable, profitable, and peaceful. We're your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an unboring business coaching program, and Teachery, an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.

[00:00:29] Jason: All right, cinnamon rollers, that's you. Let's get into the show. Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Here we are, episode 246.

[00:00:42] Caroline: We were just discussing, like, does it feel like you've done this 246 times?

[00:00:46] Jason: Do you think we'll get to 500? 

[00:00:48] Caroline: Well, yeah, maybe.

[00:00:50] Jason: Grandma's trying to call me. The reason grandma's trying to call me is because...?

[00:00:54] Caroline: It's your birthday. 

[00:00:55] Jason: It's my birthday, which is the only, only real time...

[00:00:58] Caroline: You should have just answered it. And like, gran will be on the podcast.

[00:01:00] Jason: Through my Apple Watch, because I don't have my phone near me. So it just would have been that audio through there.

[00:01:05] Caroline: Been so confused. She's already confused by FaceTime, so it really...

[00:01:08] Jason: Anybody else's grandma, when you call them on FaceTime, you just get a shot of their ear? Like, no matter what? It's always my grandmother's ear. It's fantastic. So, yeah, as of recording this, it's my birthday.

[00:01:16] Caroline: Happy birthday, babe.

[00:01:17] Jason: I turn a very young 43 years.

[00:01:20] Caroline: Yes.

[00:01:20] Jason: I don't feel 43. We talk about this often. I feel 27. That's the age I feel. 

[00:01:26] Caroline: I feel 31.

[00:01:28] Jason: Maybe not 27. Maybe like 32.

[00:01:31] Caroline: Okay.

[00:01:31] Jason: Now that I think about it. 

[00:01:32] Caroline: You just have to be older than me. I'm 31. You're 32.

[00:01:34] Jason: Well, the thing would be weird, but maybe I do feel younger than you. I don't know. I definitely act younger than you.

[00:01:39] Caroline: But you're more responsible than me. You're sillier, but more responsible.

[00:01:43] Jason: Ain't that the truth. I'm just kidding. So for my birthday, we are not... Well, today we are going to Lisbon, but we're kind of counting tomorrow as my birthday.

[00:01:52] Caroline: Tomorrow's the, like, fun celebration day.

[00:01:53] Jason: Yeah. Because we had your mom visiting and we had to like, you know, take a break of, we had back to back family visiting. So we needed some time to just relax.

[00:02:00] Caroline: And then we're going to tour the hospital where we're gonna be delivering. And Jason was like, I just don't think, like, I don't think I can say that I'm celebrating my birthday on the day that we need to go tour the hospital. I said, that's fair.

[00:02:11] Jason: I don't think so. Also, we had some of our WAIM members comment on that video that we posted about that. They're like, is that a normal thing in Europe? 'Cause never heard of that in the U.S.

[00:02:19] Caroline: Really?

[00:02:19] Jason: Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe it's just a, like, more European thing. I have no idea.

[00:02:24] Caroline: No, I think there are. I... I think there are hospital tours for especially maternity wards in the US. But I think it's just you can request it. So it's not like a... It's not like a...

[00:02:35] Jason: Right.

[00:02:35] Caroline: Accepted thing, but for me personally, it makes so much sense because literally, literally, you're doing one of the most, like...

[00:02:41] Jason: Traumatic things. 

[00:02:43] Caroline: Yeah. Like one of the hardest things you'll ever do. It's a very... It can be a very medical event. You're... There's so much uncertainty. There's... You can easily be anxious. And so I was like, why wouldn't you just want to, like, know where you're going? See the vibes.

[00:02:55] Jason: Yeah.

[00:02:56] Caroline: Be able to ask them, like, what can you bring? What can you not? Like, I don't know. I just like being prepared.

[00:02:59] Jason: Yeah. So, yeah, we're... We're going to do that. But for my, my actual birthday items, we've got a couple fun restaurants picked out, including one new Mexican restaurant, which looks very fun. And then also, I'm gonna get my cookies that I love.

[00:03:16] Caroline: Your favorite cookies.

[00:03:17] Jason: While we're there, so... 

[00:03:18] Caroline: Get a six pack or a dozen, I think.

[00:03:19] Jason: I mean, six pack. I don't need to eat a dozen.

[00:03:22] Caroline: I'm also really approaching this place in pregnancy where I'm very disappointed to report that I can eat less and less food.

[00:03:29] Jason: Yeah. There's just not as much room in there.

[00:03:31] Caroline: I get fuller faster. And so I was just having this moment here where I'm, like, sad because I'm like, I know I'm gonna have to limit my, like, my consumption.

[00:03:40] Jason: Well, it'll definitely be different from last year, but you may feel the same way. Just a different amount of food that you ate.

[00:03:45] Caroline: Because I don't like the feeling of being so full that I want to throw up. So I, like, really have to be careful.

[00:03:49] Jason: Yeah.

[00:03:50] Caroline: And... and I... I haven't yet gauged how much food is the right amount.

[00:03:54] Jason: Yeah. We... We accidentally did two tasting menus on my birthday last year in Lisbon, and it almost put Carol in a food coma full on.

[00:04:01] Caroline: Yeah. You can't do that, my guy.

[00:04:03] Jason: Yeah. I do want to thank you. You made me pancakes this morning. They were delicious.

[00:04:06] Caroline: They were really good. They were my best batch yet.

[00:04:08] Jason: I gotta say, you having ChatGPT at your disposal, I mean, it helps us in business, but it really helps me get some delicious pancakes.

[00:04:14] Caroline: I know that we talk about this all the time, but ChatGPT has changed my life.

[00:04:19] Jason: Yeah, it really has.

[00:04:20] Caroline: It has changed my life.

[00:04:21] Jason: Yeah. One of the ways to change it we've got in our pramble tops is just creating content. So we are back on the content train. I'm a little bit on the content train. You're way more on the content.

[00:04:30] Caroline: You just decided. I... I got into... For those of you who are just tuning in, I'm doing a daily series on Instagram and I'm really enjoying it. And so I got back into content creation and I'm editing videos. And then Jason decided that he got jealous. And like three days ago, he's like, I'm just going to film some YouTube videos. And I was like, okay, mister. 

[00:04:46] Jason: I wouldn't call it jealous. I would call it...

[00:04:48] Caroline: Isn't it funnier thinking...?

[00:04:49] Jason: It's true, yes. I would call it a tactical guilt.

[00:04:55] Caroline: Tactical guilt.

[00:04:56] Jason: Tactical guilt. It was like, we have this YouTube channel. It's got, you know, over 10,000 subscribers, and, like...

[00:05:03] Caroline: You got to use it. 

[00:05:03] Jason: We should use it leading up to our last ever launch of WAIM Unlimited. I mean, come on. 

[00:05:07] Caroline: You should record an entire episode about tactical...

[00:05:09] Jason: Tactical guilt. The tactics that you use because you feel guilty if you don't use them. So anyway, yeah, I'm... I'm also really challenging myself those videos, and I'm just making them, like five to seven minutes, like...

[00:05:19] Caroline: You did a great job. I really liked the first one.

[00:05:21] Jason: We'll see how you feel about the second one. 

[00:05:23] Caroline: And again.

[00:05:23] Jason: I'm also just doing it myself. I'm not even... I'm not getting any feedback from you. I'm not even interested in any ideas that you have. I'm just going for it, my, on my own.

[00:05:31] Caroline: Hearing you say the sentence I'm not interested in any ideas that you have makes me laugh really hard.

[00:05:36] Jason: Yeah. Well, it's just because this is the thing that we have found. YouTube is our... It is our biggest point of friction as a creative couple.

[00:05:44] Caroline: Yeah. We can't do it together.

[00:05:45] Jason: So I just think it's better, like, if I just do it, and as the quote goes, let me cook. And then just like, you have to deal with. Anything you don't like in it, it's just too bad.

[00:05:53] Caroline: Okay. And that's how I feel about Instagram.

[00:05:54] Jason: Which I give you zero criticism. I give you some criticism? How much criticism do I give?

[00:06:00] Caroline: No, you give me no criticism because you're like, hey, you're like just a little point of feedback. Like, if you did this here and. I'm like... 

[00:06:07] Jason: As someone who's doing daily content, I feel like that's helpful. 

[00:06:10] Caroline: No, and I do, I receive that feedback. But I'm also like, you also have to know that as someone doing daily content, perfection is not the goal. So while I appreciate the feedback, there's a reason I knew that and there's a reason why I opted not to...

[00:06:23] Jason: Well, maybe you didn't know. So I was just sharing with you, you know. 

[00:06:25] Caroline: And I appreciate it.

[00:06:26] Jason: Yeah. Anyway, that's how it feels for us to be back posting content. So, yeah, we've got the lead up series. Instagram reels essentially every day leading up to the launch.

[00:06:34] Caroline: I'm still enjoying it very much. I will be honest and say that having people visit and trying to keep up with a daily project at the same time, when I had yet to get really into a batch rhythm where I could get ahead.

[00:06:45] Jason: It was bad timing. It was bad timing.

[00:06:48] Caroline: It was bad timing. But it's okay. I think I managed it without overdoing it.

[00:06:51] Jason: Yeah. I think it's also a great example for people listening to this of like, there is no perfect time. So even if you start something when the timing is like the least great, you can still make it happen and you just have to lower your expectations and your quality.

[00:07:03] Caroline: But I am really excited for like the back half of this challenge where I have a much better system honed in. And we have two weeks before my best friend comes to visit. And that's three weeks basically before the launch.

[00:07:12] Jason: Yeah.

[00:07:13] Caroline: And so I'm excited to, after your birthday, get into a rhythm where I can like really get ahead. I'm like really looking forward to that. And I filmed some behind the scenes of like how I film and stuff on my stories and I just love process stuff. Fun to share the process.

[00:07:28] Jason: Yeah, we do. The last little preamble topic we wanted to mention here is that baby Zook. I don't think we've said it here on the podcast yet, so...

[00:07:35] Caroline: Anywhere. I haven't like announced it on Instagram or anything.

[00:07:38] Jason: So just our WAIMers are the only people who know?

[00:07:41] Caroline: Yeah, and our family.

[00:07:41] Jason: That's fun. And so we are...?

[00:07:45] Caroline: Having a girl.

[00:07:46] Jason: Yeah. Our doctor just this past week said you have a, and I quote, enormous baby.

[00:07:55] Caroline: This is my favorite. I'll never forget that moment because our doctor is like, she's just this lovely, soft spoken, very calming, wonderful woman. And I handed her the results of our like, anatomy scan, which everything looks normal, thank goodness.

[00:08:08] Jason: At 22 weeks.

[00:08:08] Caroline: 22 weeks. And it has like all the measurements and like all the, you know, confirmation that everything looks good. And she's like scanning over it and she just very quietly goes, you have an enormous baby. And I was like, enormous? Excuse me?

[00:08:23] Jason: Yeah. And I don't know if that's like a language thing that's like...

[00:08:25] Caroline: Yes, I think it was.

[00:08:26] Jason: Yeah. It's not, it's not meant to, you know, because obviously you read the numbers and it was like...

[00:08:30] Caroline: Exactly, I read the numbers and I went over it with ChatGPT. I was like, is this an abnormally large baby? And no, she is well within the range.

[00:08:38] Jason: But probably for Portuguese.

[00:08:40] Caroline: Oh, yeah.

[00:08:40] Jason: Baby is enormous.

[00:08:41] Caroline: Yes, she's enormous. And then my favorite part is you look for all these little clues, right, of like, because you can only see, you see them on the ultrasound and like, you can't really tell what they look like or anything yet. But I, I ran the measurements into ChatGPT and I was, there was one measurement that was sort of like on the very low end of the normal range.

[00:08:59] Jason: Yeah.

[00:08:59] Caroline: And I was like, what is that? Like, is that okay? And he was like, yeah, that's just the ratio of her head width to her femur length. And I was like, okay, so why would that ratio be so low? And he's like, because she's on the lower end width of her head width, meaning she'll she has like an oval shaped head.

[00:09:17] Jason: Yeah.

[00:09:17] Caroline: And she's on the far upper end of her femur length, meaning she's gonna probably be tall.

[00:09:23] Jason: Yeah.

[00:09:23] Caroline: And so that's, that's why the, the ratio is so off the charts low. And so I go, okay, so oval shaped head, long femurs. So I am going to have a daughter who just looks like Jason.

[00:09:34] Jason: Just me with pigtails.

[00:09:35] Caroline: It's just you, bud.

[00:09:36] Jason: Just me with pigtails.

[00:09:37] Caroline: Which was so sweet. I know it's like sick silly, but you just, you look for all these like little factoids and clues about who this person will be and...

[00:09:45] Jason: Yeah.

[00:09:46] Caroline: When they come out. And like, obviously it doesn't matter, like none of it matters what they look like or what, you know, but it's just fun. It's fun to imagine them. It makes it more real. And I'm excited for our enormous baby who hopefully will not be that enormous because she does need to exit.

[00:10:02] Jason: On the exit, yeah.

[00:10:03] Caroline: But I did love the narrow, the narrower head part.

[00:10:06] Jason: I mean that sounds good. 

[00:10:06] Caroline: That seems cool.

[00:10:07] Jason: For everybody.

[00:10:08] Caroline: Love that for me.

[00:10:09] Jason: Uh, all right, so those are the preamble tops. We hope you enjoyed getting that little announcement. And yeah, if you want to check out the YouTube videos, obviously Wandering Aimfully over on YouTube. And if you want to check out Carol's daily reel content, @WanderingAimfully over on Instagram. Now let's get into this episode here, Carol. And as I kind of put together the episode that was like interviewing us with AI, you put this one together and I am curious to see where it takes us.

[00:10:35] Caroline: Yeah, we, right now we're doing this pre launch series on our newsletter called the Future Proof Creator. So if you're interested in the newsletter companion to this grouping of episodes, head to wanderingaimfully.com/newsletter and I just wanted to dive into these topics deeper on the podcast because this is very top of mind for us right now obviously. But it's just... And you've probably noticed that the content of the podcast had, has shifted to the... this, this year as you and I are talking a lot more about AI and how we're using AI in our business. And I just feel like there's like sense in the air, like everything is kind of shifting beneath our feet as creators. I don't know if you listening to this have felt that at all. I think it's also the world feels like unstable. There are things that we all took for granted that are seem up for debate now. And so yeah, I think when things feel really uncertain, I am just always looking for optimism and ways that we can guide people through or at the very least not like we have infinite wisdom, but just like how are we finding our footing in a very changing time. So that's what the Future Proof Creator is all about. It's a three part series. And on this episode specifically I wanted to touch on what do we feel like hasn't changed about being a creator with all of this, you know, new technology. And then what do we feel like has definitely changed. And just we want to share three, three each of those things and then give you a couple of kind of just guiding mantras that if you're someone who feels very um, you know, un-, like, steady due to the shifting tides of technology and everything. I hope that listening to this episode will make you feel more confident coming out the other side.

[00:12:18] Jason: Yeah, and I think, I mean I personally if, if I wasn't running Wandering Aimfully with you and I was only running Teachery, I think I would feel really uncomfortable with, like, where the state of things are.

[00:12:30] Caroline: Right.

[00:12:30] Jason: Because that business is so out of my control on what I can create because I'm not a developer, I can't write code. And even with tools like Lovable that can help you do things, for an established app, like, I can't just, like, plug Teachery into Lovable and, like, have it make things. And so I think this is actually really helpful for me to share maybe from that perspective, because for that business, you know, things have worked well, you know, for many years as a side project. But, I mean, we have literally seen in this past year, half of our monthly recurring subscribers have canceled.

[00:12:59] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:12:59] Jason: And it's just because people expect better tools for their dollars. And I am seeing that, and I'm going, like, I can freak out about that, or I go, okay, like, what needs to change? Like, what are people missing out on when it comes to course creation? Because people are still creating courses and people are still selling courses. And I just think, like, that's a really important note for anybody listening to this of, like, how do you handle that? And maybe we'll do a future episode on that, especially once I can figure out some ways that we're turning it around, because we do have ads going with Google and Facebook, and, like, those are supplementing things through our lifetime plan purchases. But anyway, can get into this and we can share more on that in a future app.

[00:13:35] Caroline: I think that's actually a good place to start because I think this all begins with kind of accepting that things are changing. So, like, not burying your head in the sand and wishing that things would return to the way they were, but sort of taking a look around and going, okay, this is what's happening around me. And as we'll talk about in this episode, that doesn't mean you have to go changing, you know, changing everything or chasing every trend or that you need to have this feeling of anxiety in order to keep up. In fact, we want to present you with an option to not feel that way. We want to show you what it's like to kind of embody the calm creator ethos as you go through this period of rapid change. None of that needs to be the case, but it does need to be the case that you are honest with yourself as a business owner. And go, listen, since the dawn of entrepreneurship, this has been what it is. There are periods of stability where you have reliable tactics, and then some type of paradigm shift happens, and you have to... You have to adapt. And so I don't know, Jace, like before we dive into what's still working versus what has changed, what are kind of the main signals that you feel in your daily consumption or just like your pulse on things that make you feel like, oh, things have changed? I know you mentioned Teachery.

[00:14:56] Jason: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we're kind of all seeing this, right. But it's like the whole idea of like SEO is dead. You know, getting Google organic traffic through Google is dead. Being able to create content that has like a long shelf life is kind of dead. And I think that like all of those things are...

[00:15:13] Caroline: People love to write headlines, blank is dead.

[00:15:15] Jason: Of course, all those things are true to a degree. Like we have seen a massive decline like just in the past three to four years. We've seen it in our organic traffic, which was all coming from Google search on things that we have previously written specifically for Wandering Aimfully because Teachery never really had that much organic traffic. But I do feel like, I mean we last summer invested in paying an SEO expert. We put together a bunch of content, I'm talking specifically for Teachery, posted that content, did everything that we should do. Not a single ounce of traffic was generated from it.

[00:15:45] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:15:45] Jason: And I think that like in, in 6 years ago time that would not have been the case. Like you would have at least like one of those six would have started to generate some traffic and you would have seen some uptick from them. Now again, we're not SEO experts, we're not content... like, long form content experts. But that has been the way that we have built for a long time, our, our traffic and our customer base. And I just think like that to me is the biggest thing that that has, it's not disappeared. And I think for like super specific things it still works well. But I think for more like generic type of content, it just doesn't work anymore. And I think you have to focus on, okay, great, well, where is everyone's attention? Where are they currently searching? Like what are the new search engines?

[00:16:24] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:16:24] Jason: And also like just where is everybody spending their time?

[00:16:26] Caroline: Yeah, I picture it. I know we've always, with our marketing bridge metaphor, we've always had this metaphor of like the mainland versus your island. So like your business is an island and everybody's on the mainland. And so you just have to find a way to build a bridge from the mainland over to your island so people know that your offer exists, right? Like that's kind of always been our working marketing metaphor. But the best way I can describe how it feels is like the mainland has now had massive earthquakes where it has actually broken up into all these separate islands. And so there is no more... Like, Google was the mainland before. It was like, everybody goes through Google and searches things. Or maybe you had these different little, like, realms. Like, you had Pinterest and so everyone's over on Pinterest and they're searching stuff. You had these main things. Now everything, because the platforms are their own realms. But then the, the algorithms within the platforms create islands within islands. Right. Where, like, you're now siloed off where you're not even seeing what other people are seeing. And so I do think that that's a visual that helps you see why you can no longer just rely on, like, one tactic that can definitely, SEO, that can definitely bring you traffic. And I think that goes to show you why we're entering this new phase where experimentation is going to be more important than ever because nobody out here is going to be able to tell you what's going to work for your business, because every audience is now so niche. Every, every offer is now so niche. Every, you know, topic that you want to talk about is the niche of the niche. And so we're living in this island, fragmented media world now. And that's not to scare you, that's just to go, oh, so of course the tactics that used to work aren't going to work anymore. So I think that's kind of, for me, what feels unstable is like, there... It's just there's not anything that's super reliable anymore. You just kind of have to try stuff and find your new tactics that are going to serve your business.

[00:18:24] Jason: Yeah. And I think a lot of this is specifically related to, like, marketing and just, like, getting people's attention. And then I think on the other side of things, like the foundational business stuff, it still really matters to have a great product that people, like, make something that's good enough, people will talk about it, have really good customer support. So people feel like they're actually being taken care of as people and not just like another customer in a list. Like, there are a lot of core foundational things that will never change in running a business. But I do think the marketing of it all has changed a lot. And we're still trying to figure out, I think, how it all is changing. And I think it's just going to continue to rapidly change more and more as we go. And like, your, your fragment metaphor, I think, is a good one. Like, there's going to be even more fragments within the fragments. And, like, if you opt in to that, which is a YouTube video that we have coming out next week, like, I think it's going to make your life a lot easier as opposed to fighting against it being like, well, Pinterest worked for me for a long time, and, like, now it doesn't. So I just give up. And it's like, yeah, then you're going to get left behind. Like, you have to opt into the other things that are working and where people's attention are, otherwise your business is not going to succeed.

[00:19:26] Caroline: Well, you bring up a really good point, which takes us to kind of the first section, because I just want to put your mind at ease listening to this before we get into, like, all the things that are changing. What are the things that are still working? What? Like, because I do think one of the core skills of navigating this, like, era of tumultuous change is not getting distracted or fearful of all the change and having the mindfulness to bring yourself back to what is core and what is foundational so you don't get so unstable. Right. So let's go back to what is foundational, what is core, what is still working? And you mentioned a bunch of them, so I'm, I'm going to just highlight three here. The first one is obviously a clear offer and audience match. So I know that it's cliche and we talk about it often, but who are you talking to? What is the problem they have and what is the solution you're offering them? If you can't answer those three questions, then the foundation of your business is not firm. And so those three things will always be important because they are the, the components of value. And so that is when you feel lost in the sea of change. Ask yourself, can I answer those three questions clearly? And go back to that. Because like Jason said, if you have an offer that people love and it solves a real problem for them, that is something that is always going to be valuable.

[00:20:46] Jason: Yeah, for sure. All right. Want to talk about the second one?

[00:20:50] Caroline: Yeah. So moving on to kind of marketing. What are things that still stay the same? We just talked about how the whole marketing game is different. It's fragmented, it's islands, it's whatever. But whenever that freaks me out and I start going like, oh, my God, like, where do you get people and algorithms and da, da, da, da. I go back to just this, like, very, very simple marketing funnel, which is, do you have traffic? Do you have a place to nurture that traffic? And then do you have something to sell people? And it's just like, traffic, nurture, sell. Like, whenever things get too wild, you just go back to those three core things, and the platforms may change, the tactics may change, but as long as you know that that's what you're trying to achieve with organic marketing, traffic, nurture, sell, then you at least have a place to start from.

[00:21:36] Jason: Yeah. And I think a very practical example of this, and it's just top of mind because I just talked to him yesterday, is our buddy Wayne, who is a WAIM member. That's Wayne as in Wayne. And we have a whole interview with him on our podcast. You can go back and find it. But his business really is very simple in the grand scheme of things. His traffic source is YouTube. He uploads a YouTube video every single week. He does take breaks every once in a while, but he has now been doing it for almost three years and has 40,000 subscribers. And, like, his latest video got 20,000 views in, like, the first couple days of being up. But like, a week ago, it was like 6,000 views. And so it's like, it's not so predictable. But it's predictable enough that he has a traffic source that's coming in. Then he tells those people on every single video and in the description video, go sign up for my newsletter if you want more Canva tips, et cetera. People go and they sign up. And he nurtures them every week with a newsletter. And then three times a year, he does a launch of his Canva course. And it makes him a very good living now, and it is a sustainable business. And that was what we were just talking on the call is like, he has dabbled in the Instagram content of it all. He has dabbled in... What was the other thing that he was playing around? Oh, like, he was thinking about starting, like, articles, like, written articles. And this was a couple months ago. And I was like, don't do it. You know, like, six years ago, I would have told you, yes, do it. But now I just don't think you should waste your time. And so I think for him, it's a really good example of, like, he found the thing that works, which is YouTube content. It may not work forever, but it's working really well right now. And so just keep doing that thing.

[00:23:00] Caroline: Yeah, and it goes back to what we said at the beginning. A clear offer and an audience match. Like, those are the foundational things. And so you're... I'm so glad you brought up Wayne because he's a perfect example. Like, you know, despite the rapid, the AI of it all and everything, it's like, no, like his simple business model still works. And that should leave you feeling like, okay, as long as I can reach new people who can discover me, as long as I can present them with some sort of free solution to a problem, as long as I can build a genuine connection with them through delivering value, and as long as I can offer them something related to that content to buy, my business can make good money.

[00:23:37] Jason: Yeah.

[00:23:38] Caroline: And I can still be in this business game without having to, like, play the AI scalable, you know.

[00:23:45] Jason: Yeah. All right. The third one here is...

[00:23:49] Caroline: Honest human connection. 

[00:23:50] Jason: This one is, it's not as difficult as you think, folks. And I see it all the time because I'm the person who answers Teachery's support, specifically. The amount of people these days that send in a message and are just shocked that a human being is replying. Number one, it makes me kind of sad. But number two, it's like, it is a way that you stand out. And I think that, that, you know, the, the desire for people to start businesses that are completely automated, that you just like, you know, AI chatbots can do everything or whatever, and they are good and they are fast and they can help give answers, but especially for something like software, and maybe this is really mostly applicable to software. There are a lot of nuanced questions that get asked or a lot of things that are very custom and unique to people's businesses. And so me replying is better than any AI can possibly reply because I can't figure out the nuance in the question yet.

[00:24:39] Caroline: Right.

[00:24:39] Jason: And so I see this all the time with people that are like, this is... They're like, this is amazing. I can talk to a person still, which is just mind blowing to hear someone type into a chat box to you.

[00:24:50] Caroline: You know, this is one of those things that, again, it seems obvious, but as automation gets more and more adoption, human connection is at a higher premium.

[00:25:00] Jason: Yeah.

[00:25:01] Caroline: So it will actually mean more. So if you can find a way to just kind of draw your own line in the sand for your business and say, these are the things I'm not willing to compromise on in terms of connecting with my audience, then I really think that is still a foundational part of building an audience online. Building a loyal audience online of people who want to buy from you. And I do think people can feel the difference. Like people are starting to understand the difference between just AI garbage and, you know, real genuine human connection.

[00:25:34] Jason: One very practical way that we're going to do this for WAIM is during our final enrollment June 9th through June 24th.

[00:25:40] Caroline: Nice.

[00:25:41] Jason: We are going to actually put a live chat back on the sales page. We haven't had a live chat on the sales page in years. Mostly just because I haven't wanted to be involved daily. 

[00:25:49] Caroline: Calm launches.

[00:25:50] Jason: But this is, this is definitely, since it's the last launch, it makes sense to do that. And so I, I see this as an opportunity to make that human connection with people, to show them if they are interested in WAIM Unlimited, it is not just going to be something that they join and like, it's a... It's an AI chatbot is the only way they can talk to people. It's like, you can still email us, you can still DM us on Slack, you can still reach us. Like, we are here for you. And it's also not just being outsourced to somebody else.

[00:26:13] Caroline: And this is kind of the, the greater conversation that we're trying to weave through everything with WAIM Unlimited as we sort of pivot, which is this idea of human led AI because if you've been following along with these episodes, you know, Jason and I have been trying to decide where does AI fit into our business? Because we're so excited about it. And like I told you, ChatGPT has changed my life. But it's, it's... It seems counterintuitive at times to be like, we want to run a calm business where human connection is still at the forefront, and we want to use AI. And sometimes I think because of the way that people pigeonhole AI, they just think like, oh, well, if you're a business that uses AI, then you must not... You're a soulless business. You know what I mean? And so we're trying to carve out this more nuanced conversation about what does it look like to use AI in a more intentional way. Not just to try to, you know, scale everything, not just try to be efficient for efficiency's sake, but really like, fuel your creativity, use it as a collaborator. And so we're kind of developing what our POV on that is and trying to share that in real time as we go along. And I think people appreciate that. Like...

[00:27:16] Jason: Yeah.

[00:27:16] Caroline: I think people want an alternative to just the AI garbage.

[00:27:20] Jason: Yeah. Last note on the... the honest human connection thing here is just remember that you're helping real people. Like, your business is, is built because you want to solve a problem for your fellow humans and just be human about it. Like, don't try to automate everything and don't try to delegate every single thing. Like, leave some things for you to be a human interacting with other humans and it definitely is meaningful to people and it still matters.

[00:27:44] Caroline: Yeah. So that's just a reminder that the foundations are still there. And Jason and I were talking about how we were so glad that we never really chased like new trendy things for our un-boring coaching sessions because our entire library, which is in the like past pillar of the Past, Present, and Future edition of WAIM Unlimited, all of our coaching session library still is applicable. And for the couple of things that we really feel like have changed, like discovery content for articles and things like that, we've recorded updated sessions where the tactics may have changed, but the underlying idea is still the same. So again, just a reminder, there are things about business that are evergreen and that are just always going to be true. And so I hope that that has started out this conversation in more of like a grounded place for you that like, not everything has to change. Now let's move into what has changed though, because as we said at the top of the episode, things are unstable and I just think the rate of like media landscape changes is just getting accelerated and that... that sort of like rapid pace is what I think is leaving a lot of people feeling frenetic.

[00:28:52] Jason: Yeah, for sure. The first place I wanted to jump in is, is just what I already mentioned about search traffic is no longer a dependable discovery tool and that writing blogs used to be our absolute number one strategy. I mean this was just our go to. You... you would write foundation articles about your core business offer about the things that it does, the problems that it solves, and Google would reward you for that because people are searching for those things.

[00:29:14] Caroline: And I loved like the, gosh, that's such a good... The long tail of a blog post that really hit. I mean it could fuel your business for thousands of dollars in sales and for months, if not years.

[00:29:27] Jason: Oh, years, for sure. And I think that like the really important thing to take away from this is not like, don't ever write a blog post again. It's just I kind of see blog posts as having two points of value now. Number one, yes, all of these LLMs, all these AI tools need to learn from something. 

[00:29:45] Caroline: Right.

[00:29:45] Jason: So they are still pulling from all these different sources and your content might be that source. Now, does that mean you're going to get good traffic from it? No, but it is better than not existing at all in the LLMs mind, basically. So I do think blogs and blog posts still have relevant value there. And then the second thing is it's still a trust builder. Like, I know when I go to someone's website and I find that they're still writing blog posts relevant to whatever the thing is I'm looking at. And it doesn't have to be a lot, but it's still a few. I'm like, oh yeah. Like, I trust that you know what you're doing. You're not just a slick landing page that's trying to sell me on buying this thing.

[00:30:18] Caroline: Totally. And not just trust in that regard, but trust in people want more data points to formulate their opinion on you as a brand. So the same way that you go to an Instagram page and you look at a couple of pieces of content to formulate, like, do I want to follow this person? Are they the vibe that I'm looking for? It's very similar to like, okay, websites are not completely dead. People still, you know, especially when people who are actively searching for your niche, they're looking for a couple of articles to be like, how does this person think?

[00:30:49] Jason: Yeah.

[00:30:49] Caroline: What's their perspective?

[00:30:50] Jason: Are they the right... are they the right fit for me personality wise?

[00:30:53] Caroline: Yeah, but you're right, it is a shift in, it's not a traffic source anymore. It is more kind of a trust builder and building out almost like your, your personal brand portfolio.

[00:31:04] Jason: Yeah, it's... it's again one of the fragmented islands to spend a little bit of time on, but not a ton of time on. 

[00:31:08] Caroline: For sure. And the second one we already have talked about in a former episode, but we feel very strongly about this one, which is that vague offers just don't sell anymore. Like they, I mean, yes, you can, but vague offers are really not what is moving the needle for people's businesses. These more niche, highly outcome based, very specific offers are what people are willing to pay money for. And we've already told you all the reasons for this. People are being more discerning with their dollars. People have been burned in like more broad programs. I don't know, I just think like the era of the Marie Forleo B School of it all is like gone.

[00:31:48] Jason: And I do think like some of those bigger players will definitely still succeed in that because they have the, the long tail brand, they have the money to spend on ads, like, they're doing a lot. They can create a ton of content. However, for like the normies of us, like, all of us. 

[00:32:03] Caroline: The small creators, the solopreneurs. 

[00:32:04] Jason: It is just so much harder. And I've said this on previous episodes, like, I just think soft skills... like, this is your like life coaching and like these types of things, even just like generic business coaching like us. It is, it is just nearly impossible to sell because you can go to ChatGPT and you can get answers for free and you can get it faster, you can get it tailored to your business and it is just impossible for someone else to be able to do that. And I do think that again, going back to like, the human connection does matter and people do want to connect with humans. That is important. But I just don't think that it is, it is going to be the same kind of like set of clear path for soft skill selling to continue to work.

[00:32:41] Caroline: And again, I want to have a caveat here. Hear us when we say this. That doesn't mean you can't run your business on soft skills or sell soft skills offers. It just means like, it is harder. And so therefore, if you are trying to go that route, set your expectation that it will be harder and you will need more volume, you will need more of an audience in order to really go hard on content, really build that connection. It's just you're choosing a little bit of a different game to play. Whereas if you go with something that's more of like a hard skill, I just think it's also psychology, which is that people think that they can learn soft skills just from like osmosis and they... But like hard skills. Like, if you're trying to teach me Final Cut Pro or CapCut or whatever, quite literally I am... Like, let's talk about the transformation. I'm at point A where I don't know anything about that piece of software and I want to get to point B where I know enough about that piece of software and I don't feel like I have the expertise or the time to just learn that through osmosis. Like, I need that expedited for me. Right. Versus if I'm learning like speaking skills or I'm learning, you know, management skills or like something that's a little bit softer, I can easily psychologically convince myself that like, I can just pick that up as I go and...

[00:33:56] Jason: Yeah.

[00:33:57] Caroline: That... It's not some, some mystical expertise that's behind a curtain. Even if you are someone who is teaching those skills and you're like, no, but there are things. And I know that. But psychologically, it's much easier to trick ourselves into, there's no way for me to learn hard skills without a teacher versus, oh, I can learn soft skills just on my own.

[00:34:15] Jason: Yeah, for sure. It's kind of just like you're fighting a current right now and I think it's just like, are you choosing to fight the current? Are you choosing just to like, kind of turn with the current and go like, well, maybe I just need to adapt and I need to change a little bit because I don't want to fight the current. I don't want to make this harder on myself.

[00:34:29] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:34:29] Jason: And I think that's a big revelation for me too of just like, especially with Teachery, it is right now I'm making it hard on myself if we stick with the current way that we have been building and selling online courses. Like, people's behavior has changed and people's interest in how they want to do things has changed and they expect things to be faster and done for them. The platform has to change. Like, I can't just hold on to like a, a well worn way of doing something. I have to adapt. 

[00:34:53] Caroline: For sure. And by the way, like, obviously not all of this is an endorsement in like the way that the world is moving. You know, there are things that we want to fight back on as well in terms of everything moving to convenience, everything moving to faster, everything moving to more scalable. Of course, like in our daily lives, like, let's have those conversations. Let's, let's kind of resist that change. But as business owners, there's only so much you can do to resist the tides.

[00:35:18] Jason: Exactly.

[00:35:19] Caroline: And so both things can be true at once.

[00:35:21] Jason: Cool.

[00:35:22] Caroline: Let's talk about the last thing of what is changing in this new era even though there's like a handful of other things.

[00:35:28] Jason: Yeah, this, this one is the shelf life of tactics is shrinking. So I think this one really goes hand in hand with like the blog posts of it all. But even still other forms of content, you're seeing the same thing. And that's just this idea of like the set it and forget it model is just disappearing. And I think that that really the answer to that, like why that's happening is because the amount of content being created is more than ever before. 

[00:35:51] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:35:52] Jason: So your content is just getting replaced by other things in people's habits and their consumption habits. And so even searching for things like, it's just more things are popping up when you search for something than ever were created before. So you don't have the ability to kind of like be the answer to a question anymore because now there are 50 people answering that question as well.

[00:36:11] Caroline: And let's just talk about the platforms themselves. Now all of these platforms are mature enough and they're using AI, so they're being able to iterate faster than ever before. They're testing things and iterating, and so they're changing. And so everything, everything just the change cycle has become so much shorter, which means that what is working, you know, one month may not work three months from now. But I do think that there's a way to accept that reality without then going into chaos mode and going, okay, great. So what you're telling me is the next era of business means that I just need to stay up on every trend and I need to try to like, jump on every change that happens, and I just need to go from one thing to the next and feel chaotic about it. And we strongly believe that's not true. We believe that there is a way to operate from this, like, calm creator intentionality, even though you're accepting the reality that things are changing faster. And I think that's just, it's about the posture of putting yourself in the driver's seat and going, cool. I accept that this is the modern era of business. I get to pick and choose what quote unquote trends or what changes I am willing to experiment with, and then I can let the other ones go. Like, I don't need to jump on every single change as my next greatest opportunity.

[00:37:29] Jason: No, but, and, and that's true, but you do have to realize that if you find something that works, it's not going to work for that long. And so that's just the reality. And, and we can sit here and be upset about that and just comment on how much it sucks that things just don't last as long, or you can just go, but that is just what's happening. So be okay with that. And like you, you're going to spend hours working on your business every single day and week, regardless. That's just what it takes to sustain a business. Those hours might need to be sent... be... those hours might need to be spent iterating, experimenting, trying new things more than you ever have before, because that's just what it takes to be relevant.

[00:38:07] Caroline: And that's the game of entrepreneurship. And I think that's why, mindset wise, you want to continue to cultivate this skill of courage, putting yourself out there, trying things, not being, you know, afraid to fail. Like, these are all core mindset traits of a resilient entrepreneur. And so those skills are going to be more important than ever.

[00:38:30] Jason: All right, Carol, I think that wraps up the what's changed, what's still working.

[00:38:34] Caroline: And we're just going to end with some nice little calm truths to anchor you through the... I'm going to use, like, the sea metaphor to anchor you through this sea.

[00:38:43] Jason: This raging current.

[00:38:44] Caroline: This raging current of AI.

[00:38:46] Jason: Fragmented islands.

[00:38:47] Caroline: Yeah, I'm really in, like, a seafaring metaphor.

[00:38:50] Jason: Fantastic. Be a mermaid.

[00:38:52] Caroline: So the first one is, if the platform shifts, refocus on the principle. So I think this is a good one of, like, you know, if you had an Instagram strategy that was working, but suddenly your reach drops. Like, don't panic because you expected this to happen. Right. Jason told you. So you're... you're good. And you just, you go back to the core principle, which is, okay, it's about delivering value. It's about experimenting until I find that audience again. And I did it once, so I can do it again. And remember, go back to everything you know about standing out, about offering a solution to a problem, like, whatever those core evergreen foundational things are. So if the platform shifts, refocus on the principle.

[00:39:31] Jason: Yeah.

[00:39:32] Caroline: The underlying principle.

[00:39:32] Jason: And just expect that things are going to shift. Like, I think that's the other part of this here, is like, all right, I'm just going to be accepting of the fact that, like, when my reach drops on Instagram, like, maybe reels are working really well for you right now. That is not going to last forever. And when that happens, maybe mourn it for a day, but then just, like, move forward. Like, just know that that's going to change and you have to adapt.

[00:39:51] Caroline: Yeah. It's like you, again, going back to the game metaphor. It's like, wow, you really mastered that level. You were like, top score on that level. Oh, I started a new game board.

[00:39:58] Jason: There's a whole new level.

[00:39:59] Caroline: New level. So number two, consistency over chasing trends. So again, like Jason said, yes, you need to experiment. Yes, you want to be up on how things are changing. But remember, put yourself in the driver's seat. You don't have to jump on every single shiny thing. So just focus on showing up regularly instead of trying to catch the wave early for everything. Yeah. Like, pick and choose a couple of things that spark your interest. Like, Lovable, perfect example. Caught that one early because it truly excited us. We weren't doing that because we thought we had to. We were doing it because we wanted to. And then just, I really think that the consistency is what is going to be separate people now because it's going to require consistency to figure out what works in this, like, new island fragmentation world. And so also, the point here on consistency over chasing trends is to be really intentional about how much you're consuming.

[00:40:53] Jason: Yeah.

[00:40:53] Caroline: To stay up to date.

[00:40:54] Jason: And I think this is like a really important thing is like we're inundated with more content than we've ever had in our entire lives. That just means that there's more comparison than we've ever had in our entire lives. And so it paralyzes you even further. If you were someone who like opens up your Instagram account and you see all these people who are seemingly doing so well and maybe you're struggling, there's even more of those people who are doing so well and you feel like you're struggling even more.

[00:41:18] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:41:18] Jason: And so I just think it's a really important note that as more content gets created, you know, more than ever in the history of time, you have to be really discerning with how much of that you're consuming and be okay with unfollowing more people, taking breaks from social. Like all of this stuff is going to help you and just focus on what you can control, which is usually creating things, sharing things, helping people. Like that is stuff that you don't need to compare yourself to anybody else to do. You can just do those things.

[00:41:43] Caroline: Absolutely. And shameless plug here. I do think that that is one reason that a community like WAIM Unlimited becomes even more valuable because it becomes a filtration kind of system where you can go to an online space that is calm and where you can trickle some of those updates and what's going on and what's working for people and filter it the entire Internet and just go to people who like, are like minded as you and still feel like you're up to date, you're getting updates from how we're navigating the change.

[00:42:11] Jason: Yeah.

[00:42:11] Caroline: But you're kind of, you're going from fire hose to like gentle drip.

[00:42:15] Jason: Yeah. And I was in another Slack community last year that was like successful online business people and all... I like, I just, I felt so much comparison being in there and it was like our businesses were even doing just as well as theirs were, but because they were sharing constantly and like everyone was always like, this is my new goal and now I'm going to this and whatever. I was like, oh, this is just too much. Like I prefer to be in a community like WAIM where it's like, here's the thing I'm working on. Here's the thing I've found. Here's the thing that is really exciting me right now. Here's the thing that's really got me down.

[00:42:42] Caroline: Like I'm about to level up.

[00:42:44] Jason: Exactly. It's just. It's too much.

[00:42:46] Caroline: Yeah. And there are places for that, for people, but that's not our vibe. Finally, confidence is more productive than fear. So this is the one I want to end on because I just think it's really important. Uncertainty is always going to stoke fear. So if you're someone right now who, like, feels this instability all around us, it is a natural feeling to feel fear, because that's what uncertainty does to our brains. Is my business going to survive? Will I get left behind if I decide not to use AI? Like, all of these doubts. But I think it's important to realize that fear, and when you stay stuck in that fearful place, it leads to overthinking, it leads to stalled projects, it leads to procrastination, it leads to burnout. Like, it is not a productive place to stay. And so confidence, on the other hand, is what gives you clarity and momentum. And sometimes you do just have to put it on. And confidence is not something that you're just like, magically born within your business. It's a posture that you choose to take up with your business. It is, you know, something that you gain from doing hard things over and over and over again. But I just, it all starts with this, like, seed of belief in your own ability to adapt and figure this out and to take it one step at a time. And that's exactly what Jason and I are doing. And again, if you. If you want that encouragement, come to the, the monthly calls inside WAIM Unlimited, because that's where we're sharing how we're trying to stay in a posture of confidence instead of fear.

[00:44:10] Jason: Yeah. And I think if you're a person who is more prone to change, freaking you out and like, leaving you kind of stuck, then joining a community like WAIM Unlimited is a great way to get past that. And we have seen that with hundreds upon hundreds of members who have been a part of our community as even just joining, introducing themselves and like, being a part of something as more than they've ever done before, it gives them the confidence to then do things they've never done before. And I just think that sometimes those little steps, those little kind of like investments that you make, whether it's a financial investment or whether it's just like a, I'm putting myself out there for the first time can be such a huge leap to get past fear and, and I think that that's a really small step that you can take to build that confidence, because confidence is not something you necessarily just wake up and feel like you have more of every day. You have to take small actions to kind of build it. So, yeah, I think that's a good place to wrap this one up. And I hope it has given people a little bit of a, maybe a breath of fresh air on, you know, letting go of some of the things that they may be holding on to, but also just remembering that some of those core foundational things are always going to be important. And then also realizing that maybe if you were feeling like things were kind of crumbling around you, that you're not alone, like these things are changing. Tactics that were working are not working anymore. Maybe they're not working for as long if they are working for a small amount of time. But just know that in this kind of like new era that we're moving into in online business and technology, you just have to be willing to adapt. You got to be willing to opt into a lot of this stuff. The longer you ostrich your head in the sand and hope that like, well, maybe this will just all blow over, the more your business is just going to get completely passed by and you're going to be super stuck in a couple of years.

[00:45:50] Caroline: Yeah. So if you want to join our newsletter so that you can get the Future Proof Creator series before WAIM Unlimited opens up on June 9th, you can head to wanderingaimfully.com/newsletter and yeah, just a reminder, June 9th on your calendar, last enrollment of WAIM Unlimited ever.

[00:46:07] Jason: Yeah, you can get on our VIP wait list, velvet rope and all at wanderingaimfully.com/waitlist and that link will be in the show notes as well. And we hope this episode helped you out.

[00:46:18] Caroline: Thanks for listening. 

[00:46:18] Jason: Bye.

[00:46:19] Caroline: Bye.