240 - Why we’re ending WAIM Unlimited (part 1)

[0:00:06] Caroline: Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help online creators like you build a calm business, one that's predictable, profitable, and peaceful. We're your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an un-boring business coaching program, and Teachery, an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well-being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.

[0:00:30] Jason: All right, cinnamon rollers, that's you. Let's get into the show. Hello and welcome to the podcast.

[0:00:40] Caroline: This is about to be a juicy episode. Eww, Buddy.

[0:00:46] Jason: You didn't like it?

[0:00:47] Caroline: Do I ever?

[0:00:48] Jason: Do you prefer that or this voice if I'm going back to be a newsboy, which is worse?

[0:00:52] Caroline: I really dislike your new voice.

[0:00:54] Jason: That's the worst.

[0:00:55] Caroline: What is it? It's like you're an auctioneer. Like an old...

[0:00:57] Jason: What if I do both? Welcome to the pod-ha-ha-ha-ha-ca-ha-hast. That gets into a little bit of Michael McDonald.

[0:01:04] Caroline: Yeah, it somehow got better for me, actually.

[0:01:06] Jason: Exactly. Because it went into Yacht rock, which I know what that is now, many years later.

[0:01:10] Caroline: Good job.

[0:01:11] Jason: I learned a couple things here and there. Do you have anything you want to pramble about, or you just want to get right into this juicy top?

[0:01:15] Caroline: Oh, no, we should definitely pramble. We should definitely pramble.

[0:01:18] Jason: This juicy top. One big pramble. For those of you who are WAIMers, you will know this. Well, WAIMers who attended our coaching session. Our monthly coaching session, which was yesterday as of us recording this, they're no longer cinnamon rollers.

[0:01:31] Caroline: Who?

[0:01:32] Jason: WAIMers.

[0:01:33] Caroline: What do you mean?

[0:01:34] Jason: They're zaddies.

[0:01:35] Caroline: Eww, stop. No, buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy.

[0:01:36] Jason: Yeah. We all decided this in the coaching session. Yeah.

[0:01:38] Caroline: No, we didn't. Look at me...

[0:01:40] Jason: Everyone was like, this is such a great way to describe us.

[0:01:43] Caroline: First of all, no one said that. Second of all, nowhere in that whole bit that you did at the end of the coaching session about zaddy did you mention replacing cinnamon rollers with zaddies.

[0:01:51] Jason: Well, no, I'm just saying that right now. I mean, I think it's like we've all agreed.

[0:01:54] Caroline: Buddy. No.

[0:01:55] Jason: And everyone likes it.

[0:01:56] Caroline: No, they don't.

[0:01:57] Jason: And they're like, "Wow, what a unique thing. No one's ever said zaddy." Like they just think like, "Oh, that's cool that you made that up." So I'm just, I'm here for all my zaddies, and I'm excited for all of you to listen to the Zook daddy. That's what I'm talking about. That's who I am. If you want to be a cinnamon roller, that's fine, but I think zaddies is probably just a cuter name for everybody.

[0:02:17] Caroline: Buddy, no. I'm not going along with this bit. Have you heard of yes, and this is no...

[0:02:23] Jason: Yes.

[0:02:24] Caroline: Stop.

[0:02:26] Jason: Yeah. That's actually a pretty good representation of our life.

[0:02:30] Caroline: Yes. And you 97% of the time.

[0:02:34] Jason: Try again. Try again.

[0:02:36] Caroline: 96.

[0:02:38] Jason: Hmm, try again. Maybe switch those numbers around.

[0:02:40] Caroline: Oh, please.

[0:02:41] Jason: 64% of the time.

[0:02:42] Caroline: No way.

[0:02:43] Jason: You don't think so? Or you just said no way.

[0:02:46] Caroline: And yet...

[0:02:46] Jason: Takes it down.

[0:02:47] Caroline: Okay. Fine. If we're going there, how many times are you like, da, da, da, da, da, go ahead and try it, and you throw me into a little improv moment, and 9.5 times out of 10 what's your reaction when I do that?

[0:03:00] Jason: Well, you don't do a great job.

[0:03:00] Caroline: Because I... Yes, and because you don't do a great job.

[0:03:04] Jason: Yeah.

[0:03:04] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:03:05] Jason: We'll talk about this in therapy.

[0:03:08] Caroline: Hey, what do you want to talk about today? We'd really love to discuss our improv tendencies.

[0:03:12] Jason: Yeah.

[0:03:12] Caroline: Okay. Well...

[0:03:13] Jason: Yeah. You know what yes and is, correct?

[0:03:15] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:03:16] Jason:  Cool. Okay. Well, what do you want to pramble about?

[0:03:18] Caroline: Oh, just what's new?

[0:03:20] Jason: What's up? Nice.

[0:03:23] Caroline: We got our Wi-Fi back on.

[0:03:25] Jason: Oh, yeah, we lost Wi-Fi. There was a pretty big storm here where we live, and it affected a lot of Portugal.

[0:03:31] Caroline: Yeah, it threw us off our game. But I don't think we've recorded since. Sometimes it's hard for me to remember what we say in WAIM Weekly is versus what we say in the podcast.

[0:03:41] Jason: Yeah.

[0:03:41] Caroline: But because of the Wi-Fi snafu, do you remember we had to go to our favorite little brunch spot to suck their Wi-Fi and do a little work?

[0:03:50] Jason: Careful, bud. Had to go to our favorite brunch spot and suck. Nice.

[0:03:56] Caroline: I don't really know where I was going with that.

[0:03:57] Jason: Nicely done, pregnancy brain. Hey, you guys ever go to your favorite brunch spot and just suck? Sometimes we do.

[0:04:04] Caroline: Suck a Wi-Fi.

[0:04:06] Jason: You ever suck some Wi-Fi?

[0:04:08] Caroline: Anyway. And I got in the zone, and I was just like...

[0:04:11] Jason: Yeah.

[0:04:12] Caroline: And it was the first time I felt just able for my brain to function. I don't want to say productive, because whatever, I've been doing stuff and growing a child, that's productive.

[0:04:23] Jason: For sure.

[0:04:23] Caroline: But it's the first time I really felt like my brain could function and that I was getting tasks accomplished. And I was able to devote brain resources towards work, and that felt really good.

[0:04:31] Jason: Yeah.

[0:04:32] Caroline: And then a few days ago, I worked like a full workday without an afternoon nap.

[0:04:38] Jason: It's like the first full workday you've worked in three months.

[0:04:41] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:04:42] Jason: That's not saying that's a criticism. It's just an acknowledgement of like...

[0:04:43] Caroline: No, it's not. And I don't want anyone listening to this to hear this and be like, "Wow, really glorifying working a full workday." Like that's the end all... Be all... It's not. It's not at all.

[0:04:53] Jason: Yeah.

[0:04:53] Caroline: It's just when you have been so off your game and so fatigued and so just feeling like you not yourself in a way and like you can't get your mental resources where you want them to be. It did feel so good to not be just dead tired. And it felt really good to make some progress on things. And I feel like I'm in a good zone right now. And so, we are just riding this high of energy.

[0:05:16] Jason: We are. We are on the second trimester riding of the waves.

[0:05:19] Caroline: And we know that it's going to run out. We're aware.

[0:05:21] Jason: Of course.

[0:05:22] Caroline: And so, we just got to harness it while we can.

[0:05:24] Jason: Exactly. It's like a bucking bronco. Like we've got it lassoed, and we know that rope's not going to hold, because that bonco is a broken. While we have it...

[0:05:32] Caroline: That bonco is a broken.

[0:05:34] Jason: Is a broken. But while it's broken, the zaddies are holding on for dear life. All right. That's enough the prambling. Let's get into this episode because pretty juicy title here.

[0:05:42] Caroline: Pretty juicy, I know.

[0:05:44] Jason: Pretty juicy topic. Can I start with...

[0:05:45] Caroline: Well, we sort of dropped this bomb on everyone at the end of... Let's not say that anymore.

[0:05:49] Jason: Yeah.

[0:05:50] Caroline: Because that's too real. We sort of like...

[0:05:51] Jason: We dropped a water balloon.

[0:05:53] Caroline: We dropped this water balloon.

[0:05:53] Jason: A big water balloon.

[0:05:54] Caroline: We dropped this water balloon on everybody at the end of last podcast episode. And I feel like we really left them on a cliffhanger and so...

[0:06:03] Jason: Well, that was, obviously, it's a content marketing tactic.

[0:06:05] Caroline: Right. We were like, come back next week.

[0:06:06] Jason: Yeah. Because we're so good at that.

[0:06:08] Caroline: And so, I thought it really deserved an entire episode to take people along in real time with what... Because we just came to this decision not that long ago.

[0:06:18] Jason: Right. In fairness, for a couple of years, we have been talking internally about the flipping of our business revenue, trying to have Teachery be the number one, and then basically reducing WAIM down to...

[0:06:30] Caroline: And we have mentioned that on the podcast.

[0:06:31] Jason: Yeah. And that was kind of an inevitable goal. But it's like whenever you end anything or change anything, there's never one defining shining moment to that maybe shows you that's when that's happening. But I think we came to that recently and made the decision.

[0:06:47] Caroline: Yeah, mainly because, and again, mainly after last launch.

[0:06:51] Jason: Yeah.

[0:06:51] Caroline: It was just sort of like it became... And we'll talk about all the reasons why it just became really obvious. I think next week's episode we're going to talk about go deeper into what were those four main signs that we were ready for a big pivot, a big change, and mainly so that you, listener, can also evaluate for yourself if you're experiencing one of these four things. Like, oh, maybe it is time for me to make a change before my business sort of decides for me. And that's how we felt. Like of course, WAIM Unlimited as an offer is still very viable. Even though it was like one of our lower launches, again, we're always well aware any launch over $75,000 in revenue is nothing to scoff at.

[0:07:34] Jason: Yeah.

[0:07:35] Caroline: But all of that said, even with that, it has become clear to us that it's not the offer that we want to be focusing on anymore.

[0:07:47] Jason: Yeah.

[0:07:47] Caroline: And so, we're going to talk in this episode about why and sort of like what does that mean? And what are we going to do instead?

[0:07:52] Jason: Yeah. I wanted to start this episode with a line that you wrote that was at the bottom, but I to bring it up towards the top of the episode that I really like and I think will really resonate with a lot of people, which is change is hard, but so is staying stuck in something that no longer fits.

[0:08:05] Caroline: Yes. And I think a lot of people can relate to maybe this feeling of knowing that the pieces of your business feel like a little bit misaligned but not knowing if that misalignment is enough to force you to a place of courage where you make a big change.

[0:08:23] Jason: Yeah.

[0:08:23] Caroline: And there's no right answer to that. And like Jason said, we've had conversations about this for many years. It's not like things were so crazily misaligned in our business, but it did become clear that, like I said, this offer was no longer fitting us in necessarily the way that we wanted it to. And so, we did come to the decision that our next launch of WAIM Unlimited, as you read in the title, will be the final time that we launch WAIM Unlimited, as an offer as it exists. As it has existed for the past eight years.

[0:08:53] Jason: Yeah. If you're a WAIMer listening to this, especially for those of you who just joined in our latest enrollment, don't freak out.

[0:09:00] Caroline: Don't freak out when I say it'll be our last launch. It doesn't mean that WAIM...

[0:09:05] Jason: We're not closing the doors. We're not stopping coaching.

[0:09:07] Caroline: Yeah. We're not closing the community. We're not doing any of that yet.

[0:09:11] Jason: It's a winding down of this offer that has like a year and a half winding downtime for some things. So we'll get to what that looks like. But for those of you who are WAIMers, as of this episode going up on Thursday, March 27th, you will get an email or you already attended the coaching session where we talked about this, but you will get a video that's about 20 minutes long where we talked in the end of the coaching session about our plans and why we're making this change and what our some our thoughts are and what's changing. And we're going to cover some of that in this episode as well and in future episodes of the podcast here as we keep going. But just wanted you to know that I can imagine if I put myself in the shoes of someone especially who just joined WAIM in one of the last couple launches, they're like, "Well, hold on a second. I thought I signed up for a monthly coaching ongoing." And this is a big reason why when we sell WAIM Unlimited, we only ever commit to the current year of coaching.

[0:10:00] Caroline: Right.

[0:10:00] Jason: When we say like, "Hey, we're going to do monthly coaching live with you all, but it's only through 2025."

[0:10:05] Caroline: Right. And we always honor that...

[0:10:07] Jason: Yeah.

[0:10:09] Caroline: ...that statement. Because if you purchase WAIM Unlimited under the terms of we're going to finish coaching out through 2025, then it's up to us to fulfill that in the way that we promise.

[0:10:19] Jason: Yeah. And so, just to remind everybody, because maybe some of you aren't intimately familiar with the thing that we sell, but WAIM Unlimited, this has been our flagship offer since 2020, essentially.

[0:10:30] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:10:31] Jason:  Or really, actually, I think like 20... Yeah, 2020. Sure. And it has included lifetime access to coaching sessions, resources, workshops, a couple of tools like Teachery, the roadmap that we built, the Un-boring Business Roadmap, our Slack community, and then a bunch of other stuff like the Notion starter pack and now Calm Launch Formula and just checklists and just so many things that are in WAIM Unlimited.

[0:10:54] Caroline: Everything you need to basically run a digital products business in a calm and enough focused way.

[0:11:00] Jason: Yes. And the point here that we're sharing is that this next enrollment period, which is we think is going to happen in June, as of right now...

[0:11:08] Caroline: Late May or June.

[0:11:08] Jason: Yeah. Is going to be the last time that we ever sell that offer in itself. So it will be the last time that you will ever be able to purchase all of these coaching sessions. At that time, there'll be like 70 coaching sessions recorded. We have this big roadmap. We have a smaller roadmap too, if you're just getting started. Teachery, again, all this stuff, it's going to be the last time you're ever going to get the like, hey, everything we've ever bought and anything we make in the future, this is it. This is the last time to buy. So it's kind of exciting, but it's also kind of scary.

[0:11:38] Caroline: It's both.

[0:11:38] Jason: And what's really interesting is I think if you are looking at this from the outside in, our last three launches, I just looked at the numbers so I could say them pretty easily. We had 45 sales in the spring of 2024. We had 49 sales in fall last year. And then our most recent launch, as we told you in the launch recap episode last week, we had 33 sales. And I want to be clear, we're not complaining about how those launches did because those when all payment plans are paid out over time, that'll be $300,000 in total revenue. That's amazing. That's awesome.

[0:12:10] Caroline: Right.

[0:12:11] Jason: But the problem is that we are now in our sixth year of doing monthly coaching, we have now launched WAIM 12 times, basically about.

[0:12:20] Caroline: 13, yeah.

[0:12:21] Jason:  Yeah, something like that. And we have really, in six years' time, we have seen the landscape change in the online business space. We've seen the rise of social media and that kind of takeover. We've now seen like the rise of AI and that kind of takeover. And I think there's just something that for us being "business coaches", that was a really interesting shift for us in like 2019 when we just decided like, yeah, we're business coaches, let's just help you know all the things that you need to run a calm, profitable, peaceful, predictable business. And we're going to go along in this journey with you.

[0:12:54] Caroline: Mm-hmm.

[0:12:55] Jason: But after six years of doing anything, we just have gotten to this place where it's like, okay, we're ready for a change. Like we're ready to switch it up.

[0:13:03] Caroline: And that's the biggest thing I think we... It's like, how do you know it's time? And like I said, we're going to touch on that in the next episode a lot more, so I don't want to touch on it too much here. But this is not a very helpful answer, but Jason and I both just were so on the same page that we just knew it was time and it was sort of like, especially after the last launch and seeing sales go down, it's one of those things where it's like, I know that we could convince ourselves and it would be true that we could change our marketing, do more premarketing, go back on Instagram, do all the content to really build up to the launch, reposition it. Like we know all the things to do in order to get that offer to sell in the way that we want it to sell. But I think it's clear after three launches that we do not want to do the type of work and the stuff it takes in order to promote that offer. And I think when you start to have that feeling where it's like, I don't want to do that work, you have to ask yourself, why? Why don't I want to do that work? And I think sometimes the answer can come down to, I've just fallen out of love a little bit with serving my audience in this way.

[0:14:11] Jason: Yeah.

[0:14:12] Caroline: And so, yeah, there... Into our existing WAIMers because it's the heart of WAIM. And it's like this amazing community that we've built. And we still have such a heart for helping those people in the community, but our hearts are now being pulled in this new and exciting direction. And we just both looked at each other and we were like, what are we doing? Like, we tell people this all the time, that the whole reason to do your own thing, to be a solopreneur, is to be able to build a business that is a tool to live a really good life. And part of that is making sure that you're enjoying what you're working on. Otherwise, you're creating a job for yourself.

[0:14:50] Jason: Yeah. As you were saying that I was just thinking like, saying six years, I guess because the number six is small, it doesn't feel so impactful. But when I say this to you, we've been doing this for 72 months.

[0:15:01] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:15:02] Jason: That feels really long. Like it feels so different to me than six years. Six years feels like it's like, it's not too long. 72 months feels like, is that your entire life? Again, there's something about like that number that stood out to me. But I think my point there is that in that span of time, we have just seen major shifts in customer behavior. We have seen the repeated... Every time we go to launch, it's like, gosh, WAIM Unlimited is really broad. Like we are solving a lot of problems and like...

[0:15:34] Caroline: It is. And that speaks to the issues with the offer itself. Like why do we feel like we've outgrown the offer? Not us, but why do we think the market has outgrown the offer? And we touched on this what some of the causes of the lower launch were in the last episode. But if you don't want to go and listen to that full episode, it's like, yeah, it's too broad now. Like I think the era of the broad how to run an online business program is sort of over, you know?

[0:16:02] Jason: Yeah. I mean, I think the only way that you can do that is if, again, there's just some type of angle where you're telling someone like, "I'm going to keep you up to date on everything that happens real time." And that's just not something that we're interested in. We're just now starting to talk about AI for coaching sessions. And it's been around for two plus years.

[0:16:18] Caroline: Yeah. And it's because we only like to talk about the stuff that is not regurgitated information. Listen, I get it. People who are on the cutting edge of AI, I get that that's curation. But to me, that just feels like regurgitated information. It's just like you're taking product updates and you're updating people. There's value in that for sure. But for us personally, the thing that lights us up the most is getting out there in the field, doing stuff, experimenting, and then being able to teach from a place of experience. Which is why it took us so long to do like an AI coaching session, for example, because I was like, I want to be prompting for a year and a half so that I know exactly what works. And like, I have real intimate experience with how this is actually working in my life.

[0:16:55] Jason: Yeah. And I think one of the weird things to as we're thinking about this decision is like, but WAIM Unlimited does help a lot of people.

[0:17:02] Caroline: Of course.

[0:17:02] Jason: And so, it's like, yes, we are seeing smaller enrollment numbers, but we're still seeing a ton of positivity when people join. And I mean, we get messages from people are like, "I've been in WAIM for two weeks and I've gotten more value out of this program than like, $10,000 masterminds that I've been in for six months."

[0:17:17] Caroline: Yeah. Or Leah, who just had another launch of hers and ran through Calm Launch Formula again and is like, had her best two launches using Calm Launch Formula that she's ever had, and it keeps getting better. And so, it's like, yeah, it is hard because you know that these frameworks that we're teaching are still really valuable.

[0:17:33] Jason: And the community is valuable. Like we hear from people as we've started to talk about this like, they signed up for the monthly coaching sessions and once they get in those Zoom calls and they are with everybody, and they feel the energy, they're so motivated. And we're motivated too.

[0:17:47] Caroline: That's what I'm most excited about it. That's when I still love it the most, is on our live coaching. But I think you have to pay attention to the signals when you start to dread is way too strong a word, because I don't dread it at all. But things that used to light you up about your business, like creating coaching sessions are sort of like become, I have to do this instead of I want to do this. And that's just a natural part of doing something for 70 times.

[0:18:13] Jason: Yeah.

[0:18:14] Caroline: We've done 66. I counted coaching sessions, monthly coaching sessions. And so, I've made a curriculum and a slide presentation, and I've poured my heart and soul in a workbook and all this stuff 66 times in a row. And there comes a point where it just quite naturally your brain goes, I need a new challenge. I'm not feeling challenged by this anymore.

[0:18:35] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's like when we made the shift to... And especially for me, like when I accepted the fact that, oh, we're going to be business coaches. When that term really came into my brain and it was... I remember talking about in a podcast many, many years ago when we're first getting started was like, I really started to understand when you go from being like a basketball player to being a basketball coach, it's like that's the next evolution because you can't be a player anymore. Like your body can't handle it. Your mind can't handle it. Whatever. You move on. And I really felt like that when we became business coaches. I was like, oh, I was in the trenches of building businesses for years, but I just got really tired of that grind. And I wanted something that felt like I've learned so much. Let me help other people with what I've learned.

[0:19:20] Caroline: And now you're ready to get back in the grind.

[0:19:21] Jason: And now it's like, yeah, I think after doing this for a total of eight years with WAIM, but six years in the 72 months of coaching. It feels like, okay, while I have crappy knees, I could still get out on the court and stand in one spot and shoot some threes.

[0:19:40] Caroline: Yeah. I want to get back in the game.

[0:19:42] Jason: And we'll talk about what our plans are at the end of this episode. We're going to give you some ideas of what that or some thoughts of what our ideas are for what that looks like moving forward. But I do think that one of the things that we really try to do as much as possible is to just evolve and let our businesses evolve and be okay with the fact that we don't have a perfect plan for how to move on.

[0:20:04] Caroline: Totally.

[0:20:05] Jason: And this last WAIM Unlimited launch, 100%, yes, we are seeing it as an opportunity to build up a little bit of cash flow because it is a very attractive thing to sell WAIM Unlimited one final time, and that's the last time we're going to sell it. That's not the number one reason why we're doing it, but it is going to help us create a bit of personal runway and financial runway to be able to then take some risks on what we're going to do next.

[0:20:29] Caroline: And I think it sort of helped us make the decision to not have one foot in and one foot out, right? We asked ourselves, we could do this one of two ways. We were already going to do a May, June launch. We knew because we've mentioned to you all before, we're going on parental leave for the second half of the year, so we weren't going to have a Fall launch this year regardless.

[0:20:47] Jason: Right.

[0:20:48] Caroline: So we said to ourselves, okay, well, we knew we were going to commit to at least doing a May, June launch. But then we asked ourselves, okay, but if we sort of think that that's not going... If we see the writing on the wall that WAIM Unlimited is on the decline as an offer in the way that we want to sell it anyway, it forced our hand to be like, why don't we just rip the band aid off? We know what decision we're ultimately going to come to. Let's stop kidding ourselves and just doing the slow tear of the band aid. Let's instead rip the band aid. Because what you get by being decisive is then we get to be honest about the fact that we will be offering it a final time. And what you get as a bonus from that honesty is, like you said, that little boost of everyone who has maybe thought about it for years not joined, they thought, "I'll do it next launch. I'll do it next launch." You are going to get some of those people who are like, "I don't want to have this pass me by. I want to be able to get in there." And we know that that's going to happen. We're not going to pretend like that's not going to happen. But it forced us to just make the decision. And this is what I want to share on this podcast, is you could spend years thinking like, "Oh, what if I did this? Or, what if I did that?" And sometimes you do need that time to process the decision. But you and I, I think, luckily, are aligned on this, where it's like there's something very liberating about just going just make the call.

[0:22:11] Jason: Yeah.

[0:22:12] Caroline: And you don't even have to know what comes next. Like Jason said, we're going to share with you ideas. But the reason I want to share this entire process transparently on the podcast is because I know so many of you out there are thinking about big changes you want to make or big rebrands you want to do or going towards a whole new audience or this big way that you want to reimagine your business. And so, few business owners take you along on the messiness of that pivot or of that change. And instead, what they do is they dream up the whole thing, and then they come out with the big, splashy launch and say, look, I'm a new business now, and this is what I've done. But they never show you what the uncertainty was like, what the fear was like, what the courage to shut things down was like. And so, that's what we're trying to do.

[0:22:55] Jason: Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about what is going to change for specifically our WAIM members. But before we do that, we definitely want to get your questions. So if you have questions about this, if you're on Spotify, feel free to just leave a comment on Spotify with what your questions are, what you want to know about how we're making this change. And again, by the end of this episode, you'll have some ideas of what we're focusing on next. So maybe listen all the way through and then you can send through questions. If you're not on Spotify, feel free to just send us an email hello@wanderingaimfully.com or if you go to podcast.wanderingaimfully.com, there is the little audio note thing you can leave in the bottom right of any of those pages of our podcast website. So you can feel free to send us questions. And we are going to do next episode or two episodes from then.

[0:23:37] Caroline: It'll probably be two episodes from now.

[0:23:39] Jason: We're going to take some of your questions and answer them. We actually already have a bunch from a couple of our WAIM members and some really good questions. It's like emotionally, how are we thinking about this? Financially, how are we thinking about this? How does this impact our enough number? Like does that change over time?

[0:23:52] Caroline: How are you going to get your recurring revenue back up to like where it was with WAIM?

[0:23:54] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So if you have questions, feel free to go ahead and send those through and we will answer them in a future episode. But yeah, let's talk about what's changing or not changing for our WAIM members. Because I know that if I was someone who was part of a paid community and the owners of that community were saying like, "Hey, things are changing." I would be like, "Well, hold on a second."

[0:24:16] Caroline: How is it changing?

[0:24:17] Jason: "What's it going to change for me?"

[0:24:18] Caroline: Yeah. And even if you aren't a WAIMer, I think, again, the meta lesson here is a lot of you I know have some sort of paid community or some sort of offer that's ongoing. And so, you might have questions about like, okay, well, I want to make some sort of pivot, but I feel sort of locked into this ongoing community and I don't know how to take my people along on that evolution with me. And so hopefully, you can learn from just how we think about doing this. And I think the number one first thing that's very helpful is that when people sign up for WAIM, they understand and from the very beginning Wandering Aimfully as a brand has always been about evolution. And so, like just when we shared it on the coaching session, for example, all of our members were so lovely and so supportive, and of course, people are like, ah, the panic of how's it changing? But the overall sentiment was just like thank you for modeling what evolving looks like. And the only reason that I think you get that type of reaction is because you attract a group of people that know that one of your core values is evolution, right?

[0:25:20] Jason: Yeah.

[0:25:21] Caroline: So I think that's my biggest advice is just the more that you can put that into your community as a core value, that you give people space to evolve and that your community gives you space to evolve. And that you explain your decisions along the way because at the end of the day, we're all humans. And so, understanding what someone's intention is is really important. So that's part of even why we're doing this or why we shared it on the coaching session is we know WAIMers are going to have questions, and we want to give plenty of time for our community members and our customers to really process what like could this look like in the future.

[0:25:57] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the overarching what is changing about WAIM Unlimited for our members is it's not going to feel like much at all for quite a while.

[0:26:07] Caroline: Right.

[0:26:08] Jason: The access to coaching sessions, again, Notion starter pack, Calm Launch Formula, all these resources that help you grow your business, the courses, all that stuff that's going to be forever lifetime access.

[0:26:21] Caroline: Yeah. That won't go away.

[0:26:22] Jason: We're going to continue to pay to keep the WAIM dashboard available for as long as we can, and I'm saying like 10, 15, 20 years. Our plan is to continue to pay that and keep that available for everybody. Now, might it change in a few years to a different layout or something simpler or whatever? Sure, that's possible. But for right now and for the next couple years, it's not going to change at all. So that's going to be the same. The coaching sessions, so this is the most interesting change I think in everything that we're doing. So through 2025, we're still going to do monthly coaching sessions. Now, we are having parental leave towards the end of the year, that'll start in August. And so, those will be prerecorded sessions that go up monthly. We are trying to figure out if there's a way that we can do like a live viewing of the session.

[0:27:05] Caroline: Live viewing.

[0:27:07] Jason: We're not going to do that because we're going to have a baby and we're in a break, but...

[0:27:10] Caroline: Right. But basically, think of like a live premiere in a...

[0:27:13] Jason: Yeah, like a YouTube video. Yeah.

[0:27:14] Caroline: Like a YouTube video, but in a private community where members can show up at a certain time and chat because the chat is so important and a lot of them love that sort of designated time and place to be able to learn. And so, we're working through what the logistics of that will be. But I think that's a really great solution. I told Jason this was a really hard pill for me to swallow because I love the live aspect of it, and I think it's such a value add. But I also am trying to be honest about giving myself grace in the fact that I don't know how I'm going to feel postpartum, and I don't know how I'm going to...

[0:27:45] Jason: Yeah. And the thing that I don't want to do, and a bunch of members have offered this up for years is like, "Hey, when you guys need to take breaks or you're going on parental leave or whatever, just have someone guest host a coaching session." And I 100% understand the idea of that. And I do believe that is a good idea.

[0:28:02] Caroline: Because even I suggested that. I said, "What about that?"

[0:28:04] Jason: However, I know us, and I know me specifically, the logistics that go on to make that happen...

[0:28:11] Caroline: Right.

[0:28:12] Jason: ...it's going to stress me out to go, okay, well, did it go well?

[0:28:15] Caroline: Did the email go out?

[0:28:15] Jason: Did the emails go out? Did they do the reminders? Did the Zoom go well? Did they record properly so that... It's all these different things and I just don't want to think about any of that when we have a new baby. Like I want to be in a space of I'm not stressing out about something that we could have just done an easier way for us and still deliver value to our members.

[0:28:32] Caroline: I think that's really valid. And ultimately, if that's what we decide, then I will 100% support you because of what you said of, I just don't want to be thinking about it. That's totally valid. I will say. I do think that could be a way for you to challenge yourself and your need to control that. Like to really ask yourself, is it the end of the world if the email goes out perfectly or if they don't record perfectly? Right? To loosen the reins a little bit, that could be an opportunity to delegate in a way and we're already planning on having like sort of a assistant that is going to help us with some of the admin stuff and like really being able to, as we have now, a kid and like can't have our hands and everything.

[0:29:15] Jason: We don't have one yet, but it's coming.

[0:29:17] Caroline: It's coming.

[0:29:18] Jason: Yeah.

[0:29:18] Caroline: That would be an opportunity to really test drive that feeling of loosening the reins a little bit. However, like you said, if it just comes down to, I want to be able to give my 100% focus to this new little alien being that's going to be in our house, then I support you in that. And then I think we should be totally fine with the prerecorded way that we're going to do it.

[0:29:39] Jason: Yeah. So we'll figure that out. And obviously with WAIMers, we will continue to make that information very clear and how we're going to handle that. And listen, we want to do something that feels like the community is still getting together, and another thing that's not going to change, our Slack community is not going to go anywhere, that's going to continue through at least the end of 2026.

[0:29:57] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:29:57] Jason: So we are committing to that being available, but also just to go back to the coaching session. So through 2025, it will be like business focused coaching sessions and then like learn a thing. We're teaching you a thing. But then in 2026, our goal right now is probably do a monthly video with everybody. Could be quarterly. We're trying to figure out what that looks like.

[0:30:22] Caroline: No, you said video. You mean like a live...

[0:30:25] Jason: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:30:25] Caroline: Yeah. Like a monthly session. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:30:26] Jason: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

[0:30:28] Caroline: Yeah, Zoom.

[0:30:29] Jason: Yeah. But it's more Q&A focused and less us having anything prepared to teach you.

[0:30:34] Caroline: Yup.

[0:30:35] Jason: And I think the thing that what we don't know yet, because we don't have a firm, exact idea of what we're doing in 2026. We have an idea what we want to do. I do think those monthly sessions will actually become interestingly impactful because we might be sharing how we're building a new business and what we're doing and what we're learning and like how we're doing that. And that becomes very tactical and practical for people to follow along with. So it's not just going to be us showing and being like, "Hey, we're here for Q&A. Who's got questions?" It's like, "Hey, let us share with you what we've been working on and show you all these different ideas and things that are going on." And that's really fun for you to see because it's not really going to be posted in that way anywhere else.

[0:31:12] Caroline: Totally.

[0:31:12] Jason: So that's coaching sessions.

[0:31:14] Caroline: Yup. And you touched on Slack, so...

[0:31:16] Jason: Yes. So Slack. For everybody listening to this who's a WAIMer, like we will still do the WAIM Accountability through the end of this year. I'm pretty certain we'll still do it in 2026. We have not talked about that yet, so we will discuss that.

[0:31:26] Caroline: Yeah. That's going to be really dependent on you and your bandwidth with a small being. But based on now having the app live, like I don't see why we wouldn't be able to do that, especially, again, with an assistant could help us with that.

[0:31:40] Jason: Yes. I think if we have somebody who's helping us do like all the kind of like assistant ops, like a lot of the things that I just do on a daily basis for WAIM.

[0:31:49] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:31:50] Jason: That, to me...

[0:31:50] Caroline: You are assistant, usually.

[0:31:51] Jason: Huh?

[0:31:52] Caroline: You are our assistant.

[0:31:52] Jason: I, 100% am.

[0:31:54] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:31:54] Jason: I'm the ops person assistant. But if we can find somebody who is awesome and can replace me and also likes doing like customer support type tasks as well, then 100% I think we could continue the WAIM of Stones game through 2026. Because again, I want to focus more working my energy and effort on Teachery, but then also on the new thing that we're building. And so, if I'm just continuing to do all the admin and op stuff for WAIM, I don't free up any of my time because I'm already going to be losing time by corralling a small human around and making sure that they aren't bumping into our hard edges in our home that we're going to have to cover up with soft edges. And then yeah, the last thing to touch on here for WAIM members is this whole idea of WAIM Unlimited is... And it's been this way since I came up with this idea BuyMyFuture in 2015, which is anything that we create in the future, you will get access to for free. Like that's part of what you're buying into is a little bit of a bet that future us is going to create things and you're going to get access to those. So that is something that...

[0:32:51] Caroline: Which as of now, our idea for what we want to maybe focus on next year means we're going to be making a lot more things, which is the funny part.

[0:32:59] Jason: Yeah. Like paid apps and tools that you won't have to pay for if you're a WAIM Unlimited member.

[0:33:04] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:33:04] Jason: And I think that like, yeah, there's some really interesting, just like hedging your bets if you're someone who listens to this podcast and is like, well, I like these folks. I haven't necessarily need the business coaching, but I don't know, if they're going to make four or five apps that are going to cost 50 bucks a month and that'd be 200 bucks a month and for 10 months that would be the cost of WAIM or somewhere close to it, yeah, I should probably just buy WAIM Unlimited and then like, I know that for years to come, if they're making things, it's going to be a good deal. So yeah, I think there's something very interesting there. We've also talked about if we ever make another new lifetime offer, it definitely won't be WAIM Unlimited. That's not going to come back around.

[0:33:38] Caroline: Yeah. If anything, if we ever did something that is comprehensive again like that, it would be around a very specific problem. It would be much more... It wouldn't be like the full roadmap, the full coaching sessions. Like it would be much more specific.

[0:33:53] Jason: Yeah, yeah. So more to come on those things. And again, if you're a WAIMer, we're going to continue to talk about this often because we don't want you to be left in the dark in any way whatsoever. But I think you can all hear that the way that we're presenting this is like, not a ton is changing in 2025 because we were going to go on parental leave anyway, so it was going to be recorded coaching sessions, me not being in Slack as much, et cetera. 2026 is where the monthly coaching session is less of like us teaching a thing and more of like, sharing what we're working on.

[0:34:21] Caroline: Yup.

[0:34:22] Jason: And then still being a part of the Slack community and having a place to hang out and interact. And I think even like we've been talking about a lot, I've been doing these little ad hoc office hours in our Slack community, and I really like them. It's just like me hopping in and saying like, "Hey, if anybody has a question, just type it as a response to this thread and I'll just answer to best of my abilities and coach you through something's going on." I could see that replacing the majority of my time spent working on WAIM, where I just jump in, like every couple of weeks on a Friday for a couple of hours.

[0:34:52] Caroline: Mm-hmm.

[0:34:52] Jason: Because it's really easy to do and I really like doing it.

[0:34:56] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:34:56] Jason: And there's just a fun directness to helping people in those moments.

[0:35:00] Caroline: Yeah. You can scratch that coaching itch.

[0:35:02] Jason: Yeah. So I see that as actually something that might open up more in 2026 than I've ever done before, which I think could help a lot of our WAIMers.

[0:35:10] Caroline: Yeah. So I think the big question that people are probably wondering as they're listening to this is like, okay, what are you going to sell then? Like what are you even pivoting to? Like what is going to be your core offer if not WAIM Unlimited?

[0:35:24] Jason: Yeah.

[0:35:25] Caroline: And we're figuring that out.

[0:35:26] Jason: Yeah.

[0:35:27] Caroline: But I will share with you, we're thinking of 2025 as our bridge year.

[0:35:32] Jason: Yeah.

[0:35:32] Caroline: This is our pivot year. This is where we are going to experiment and figure out what that new direction is. And then 2026 is hopefully the reinvention year where it's like we're building things up from the ground up again, based on how that went. What that looks like is, we've already told you, mentioned a few times that between now and whenever I run out of energy in the third trimester, I am trying to work on getting more of our lower priced offers, Calm Launch Formula. We have this like launch magic prompt pack that's basically the prompts just from Calm Launch Formula and other AI prompt digital products that we want to create and really creating some more evergreen type of funnels for those products. I think, again, solving specific problems around an interest that people have demand for right now and then creating perhaps an Instagram and maybe even a YouTube funnel for those things. That's what we're going to try to experiment with in the next few months, knowing that my capacity is a little bit uncertain, but I've already made a lot of really good progress and that feels exciting. And those are still products that we are super jazzed on. So that's actually one of the things that made me realize that maybe I was like sort of falling out of love with WAIM Unlimited is like all I want to talk about in WAIM Unlimited is Calm Launch Formula.

[0:36:52] Jason: Right.

[0:36:52] Caroline: Because it gets people results.

[0:36:54] Jason: Yeah. And I think, again, 72 months of helping people with copywriting and offer examination and figuring out, and writing sales emails and figuring out... Or not necessarily sales, like email marketing in general and all the basic foundational topics I just think we have talked about for so long. And again, some of that is shifting and some of that is changing, but some of that stuff is just like we can't tell you more times than we already have...

[0:37:22] Caroline: That you need to email list.

[0:37:22] Jason: ...you got to validate your offer. You got to have an email list. You got to solve a problem for a person. Like just repeating that stuff over and over again like it just has run its course. But what's really exciting for us now is like you said, like helping people do these launches and helping people see real results for their businesses and also being less overwhelmed by that entire process. And so, I think if anything like these next three months of just focusing on Calm Launch is like our main thing and just seeing how we can use Instagram specifically to build some type of funnel through content on there is going to be really interesting, because then we also can teach it to WAIMers in some of our coaching sessions before we wrap up coaching of, hey, look, this still works in 2025. Here's how we did it. Here's how we did not do it by burning ourselves out by creating 6,000 Instagram reels per day. It's like we did it in a more calm way. And you can do it the same way too. And what you do is you have put the whole process together and experiment with the types of content, et cetera.

[0:38:18] Caroline: And you will start to see us talk more also in our content about using AI to accomplish those things. And I know that AI is not for everyone. I know that there are going to people listening to this who are like, "I'm anti AI, I'm not using it. I have ethical reasons for that." And I totally respect that position. Jason and I, and we shared this with all of our WAIMers, I would be such a hypocrite if I said that AI hasn't completely transformed my life in a positive way.

[0:38:45] Jason: Yeah.

[0:38:45] Caroline: And so, for that reason, like I am comfortable sitting in the gray of knowing that this is a tool that has immense benefits and negative ramifications. And Jason and I are having conversations every day about how we make informed decisions about mitigating some of those negative ramifications and how we use it as a tool consciously. And I'm really interested in sharing that with people because also our heart is for creators and solopreneurs and people who want to build businesses that help them live beautiful, spacious lives. And I just have not seen a tool come along that has a better, more deeply felt impact than AI in order to allow someone to have a solo or small team and be able to work less and live more.

[0:39:31] Jason: Yeah.

[0:39:32] Caroline: And so, I can't ignore the fact that this is like a revolution and I'm passionate about it and I love using it. And so, you will start to see that in our content more. And really just we want to approach AI from like a very human powered lens. There's a lot of people out there who are just talking about how you can use it to work 10 times more. And this output that they're creating is garbage. We've all seen it, the AI garbage. And I'm interested in doing it a different way, just like we did online business a different way. Like slower and more... Yeah, heart centered. And so, what does that look like? So you'll see that more in our content. Which brings us to, again, March to May, focusing on the evergreen funnel with Calm Launch, talking more about AI, May/ June, final launch of WAIM Unlimited.

[0:40:19] Jason: Yup.

[0:40:20] Caroline: June to December, we're going to be quieter because we're going to be welcoming a tiny human being into our family.

[0:40:28] Jason: Yeah.

[0:40:29] Caroline: And we will, as it gets closer, we'll tell you what the schedule will be for that of like when we're going on leave with the podcast and when we're coming back, the newsletter, et cetera. We've already planned that out. Also, if you want us to do a full episode on our parental leave plan...

[0:40:42] Jason: Oh, yeah, I've already said that. We're definitely going to do that.

[0:40:44] Caroline: Okay. Well, we'll do that.

[0:40:45] Jason: Even if they don't want it, we're going to do it.

[0:40:46] Caroline: Okay. We'll do that. So you'll know the details.

[0:40:48] Jason: Also, I know what the zaddies want.

[0:40:50] Caroline: Buddy.

[0:40:50] Jason: Yeah. What's up?

[0:40:52] Caroline: No, stop.

[0:40:54] Jason: No, stop.

[0:40:54] Caroline: No, stop.

[0:40:55] Jason: No, stop.

[0:40:55] Caroline: No stop.

[0:40:56] Jason: All right. Yeah.

[0:40:57] Caroline: And then 2026. Hit them with 2026.

[0:40:58] Jason: Yes. So I'm going to take this because this is mostly... I'm leading the charge on this and I think when we have more time to talk about it together, I think it will definitely change. But as of right now, what...

[0:41:11] Caroline: We're in the beginning stages. Let's just say that.

[0:41:12] Jason: Yeah. Where I see 2026 going, that I think would be really fun, is every quarter building a new app or tool.

[0:41:21] Caroline: For creators.

[0:41:22] Jason: For creators. So I'm just going to give an example. This isn't one that we're going to build, but let's just say it's an AI transcription tool for podcast episodes, like helps you get a transcription, get some captions, get some things, and it's just a very simple tool that does that and it's not like over bloated with a ton of features. Let's just say that's an example of what we're going to build. It's probably not we're going to build. But our goal would be in the first quarter we're going to build that tool using Lovable, which is we've talked about before. It's an AI coding tool. Absolutely love it. And we're going to document the journey of doing that both on Instagram, maybe TikTok and YouTube and just share the behind the scenes. What are we doing? Like looking over our shoulder as we're building these things. A lot of what we did at the very beginning of WAIM when we were building WAIM.

[0:42:04] Caroline: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[0:42:05] Jason: And because we love sharing that type of content and it's very interesting to me to watch that type of content. It's like my favorite content.

[0:42:12] Caroline: It's the most inspiring content for us. It's like someone in the trenches figuring out as they go.

[0:42:16] Jason: Exactly. Like what roadblocks do you run into? What little aha moments do you have?

[0:42:20] Caroline: I would so much rather than someone tell me their five tips for doing X, Y and Z, I would so much rather than be like here are the three problems I ran into this week when I was trying to do X, Y and Z.

[0:42:29] Jason: Exactly. So the idea is in that quarter, we build a brand for the thing, we give it a name, we build a website, we make the tool itself using Lovable ourselves. Not hiring a developer to build it, not spending a bunch of money to build it. We may need a developer help finish it because as we've found with some of these projects, like they don't always get to a great finish line. But once that's up, then we do like kind of founder price for you all, if you're listening, to buy the tool. If you're a WAIMer, you'll get it for free. But if you're not a WAIMer, you can buy it and whatever we want to sell it for. And then what I really want to do is like a two-week auction to then sell the tool to someone who wants to own it and then run it themselves.

[0:43:06] Caroline: Mm-hmm.

[0:43:07] Jason: So that, A, we can get like a little bit of a cash injection and like, "Hey, here's a built tool that you can literally build a business around." And then for us, we can then move on to the next tool the next quarter.

[0:43:17] Caroline: Yeah. We're not building a portfolio of trying to manage 12 SaaS businesses...

[0:43:21] Jason: And maybe there's, again, my whole idea behind that concept is imagine we build four tools in 2026, and maybe it'll be more because maybe some will be smaller. We'll figure it out. But maybe one of them catches a little bit of a trend and does really well, and we go, okay, cool, we're actually not going to sell this one.

[0:43:39] Caroline: We'll keep that one.

[0:43:40] Jason: That's the one that's going to be like our main focus. And maybe we just shift to working on that for the next two to three years.

[0:43:44] Caroline: Yeah. And again, we still are able to document everything with the audience that we've built of creators so that they're seeing what it takes to use these amazing new tools to have an idea, to solve a problem, to add value, and that there are different ways to create online businesses that aren't just digital products, that are actually software products now. Like, that's never been within our capability if you're not an engineer or developer.

[0:44:13] Jason: Yeah.

[0:44:14] Caroline: And that's a cool time to be alive right now.

[0:44:16] Jason: Also, little tease of a project that I'm working on right now is a little tool for Lovable. Like a little chrome extension for Lovable.

[0:44:25] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:44:25] Jason: That we haven't even talked about here at all. And it'll probably exist, I'm guessing, in like, the next couple of weeks. So we'll probably announce it on the podcast. But I'm actually really excited for that because as we start to look forward to using Lovable like a ton more, this little tool that I've had an idea for a while, I think it's going to be such a helpful little thing. And it's kind of dumb, but it's also just like it really helps you multitask while using Lovable because there's a lot of downtime in it. So it'll be fun.

[0:44:50] Caroline: Yeah. And I think that the takeaway here is just that we are going back to what I think our core strengths are and what our heart of why we became creators in the first place.

[0:45:03] Jason: Yeah.

[0:45:03] Caroline: You and I are builders. We are ideas people. We love coming up with ideas. We love putting valuable things out into the world. We love the problem-solving part of the beginning of things. And I think like you said, just we had arrived at this place where it really felt like we were repeating ourselves to a certain degree, and that didn't feel good. And I'm excited for new challenges again, new creativity, being able to engage with our curiosity. And we've found ways to do that within being business coaches. But there is something about the unknown and the uncertainty that is scary, but it's also so exciting because it reminds me of why I became an entrepreneur in the first place.

[0:45:46] Jason: Yeah. And I actually told Caroline earlier, we were finishing up lunch, I was like, I haven't even thought about this way, but 2026 and going this direction, it's the first time in a long time that we'll be building things that have the potential to have a hugely outsized return on the investment of time. Because launching WAIM Unlimited, it's a pretty finite potential in the sales of it. While it's great...

[0:46:08] Caroline: In terms of scalability.

[0:46:09] Jason: Exactly. And it's...

[0:46:12] Caroline: I would say it's highly scalable for what it is.

[0:46:14] Jason: Yeah.

[0:46:14] Caroline: But not to the degree of like you said, you put in the time effort and...

[0:46:17] Jason: Yeah, we don't love using the word. And it's not going to be our goal to build a viral app of any time. But I like the fact that we're moving into something where there is a chance that something could take off beyond what just like, our email list size can support in selling something.

[0:46:31] Caroline: Yeah.

[0:46:31] Jason: Where people could be like, "Whoa, have you seen this tool that this thing? I've got to tell everybody I know about it because it's so interesting and it does something so unique." And so, I'm excited about the possibility of making those things in 2026. Yeah. To wrap up, I want to bring that line back that I said at the very beginning that you wrote down, which is change is hard, but so is staying stuck in something that no longer fits. And I think that we have loved WAIM Unlimited, and we've loved this transition into WAIM and the whole ethos of why we started WAIM back in 2018 on a walk in late 2016 was, we're better together. And working on something together is way more fun than working on separate things. The idea of Wandering Aimfully is like our entire ethos in life is just to experiment, move to a foreign country, to us, and start a life over somewhere else where you don't speak the language, you don't know the culture, you don't know anything. And that leads to amazing things in life.

[0:47:24] Caroline: Yeah. When you think about it. Yeah, literally, that is what the idea of Wandering Aimfully was all about. It was like experimentation with intention, like allowing yourself to evolve while always staying true to your heart, your North Star, even as that changes. And we've done that with our life, with moving. We've done it with moving to California, moving countries, traveling for a year, and we've done it with business, and we continue to do it. And so, in a way, this feels very natural and familiar to us, this idea of taking a big leap and not knowing what's on the other side but just knowing that there comes a point where you feel like the season that you're in, you can feel that you're sort of at the end of the chapter. You can just feel like something is coming to a close. Something has kind of run its course. And even though we're going to continue to support the community for the next year and a half, at least, because we don't know what's beyond that, but we wanted to go ahead and take this leap and be transparent about the leap sooner rather than later, so that it wouldn't feel like it was coming out of the blue for our people and that we were switching everything up on a dime. It's like, no, no, no. We're just turning the ship well before we hit the iceberg.

[0:48:37] Jason: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right. So next week we're going to do an episode on when we knew it was time to make the switch and how we evaluated that and all the things that go along with it. As I mentioned earlier, if you want to ask us any questions, you can leave a comment on Spotify in this episode. You can send us an email hello@ wanderingaimfully.com or you can go to podcast.wanderingaimfully.com and submit a little voice note if you want to do that. Any questions you have about how we're thinking about this pivot or any of these things, we would love to answer those. And we, again, already have a couple of great questions from our zaddies. But yeah, just very excited to share this journey. And I know for the history of us in 15 years, all of these huge decisions that we've made, none of them have we ever regretted. They have always been inflection points to catapult us in different directions, whether we knew exactly what direction we were going to go in or not. They've always worked out in some way to learn something, to grow, to experience new things. And for 72 months, we've done the exact same thing in some respects. And I'm just so excited next year to take people along in the journey of we're going in a whole different direction and hang on for the ride, because it's going to be fun one way or another, whether it works or it doesn't.

[0:49:54] Caroline: Exactly. At least it's not the status quo, right?

[0:49:58] Jason: Yeah.

[0:49:58] Caroline: And I think that's where you and I are the same, where it's like if we spend too long in the status quo, it's great. Calm is great for a while.

[0:50:05] Jason: Yeah.

[0:50:06] Caroline: And there's a balance there. But it's like there comes a point where, like you said, calm becomes... Not complacency, but calm becomes...

[0:50:12] Jason: Yeah. And calm with a decline in revenue that is noticeable. It's not like we're not in any trouble financially at all by any means, but it is just something where you start to see you go, okay, yeah, we need to start turning the ship in a different direction way before we ever get close to the iceberg.

[0:50:27] Caroline: Yeah. And I think maybe that's why I don't feel maybe as scared as I should, is because we've done this many times before.

[0:50:36] Jason: Yeah.

[0:50:37] Caroline: We've made big choices without knowing what's on the other side before. And that's why you do that in life because you build confidence in yourself. You build confidence in your ability to handle whatever life throws at you, and that gives you freedom. So then you're not living in fear. And so, I think if we maybe hadn't done this like taken a big leap or done a big pivot before, even creating Wandering Aimfully was a big leap. It was like ending both of our personal brands in order to join together. But if we hadn't done some version of this many, many times before, I think I would be a little bit more in fear and probably hesitating to end something that is still working. But the confidence that I've built over taking these leaps over and over again, as you said, never once have we regretted a big move like this. And so, it just almost is like, yeah, why the heck not? Like life is short.

[0:51:36] Jason: Let's grab that bucking bronco and let's go.

[0:51:38] Caroline: No. Let's grab that brucking bonco.

[0:51:42] Jason: Let's grab the brucking bonco. Let's go.

[0:51:44] Caroline: Okay. Maybe not cinnamon rollers. Maybe bruck and boncos.

[0:51:48] Jason: No, zaddies. You can say it. Try and say it.

[0:51:49] Caroline: They're not zaddies.

[0:51:51] Jason: See how good it sounds to say it? It feels good, doesn't it?

[0:51:54] Caroline: I want everyone to know that I did tell Jason what a zaddy is.

[0:51:58] Jason: Yeah.

[0:51:58] Caroline: And so, he thinks it's funny that to pretend that he doesn't know what it is and to call you all zaddies. I want you to know what the joke is.

[0:52:04] Jason: Exactly. All right. Let's wrap up there. Thank you all for listening to yet another episode of our podcast. We appreciate your faces and we'll be back next week with more.

[0:52:11] Caroline: Thanks for joining us for the ride wherever you joined us on this wild roller coaster. But we are so grateful that you listen and thanks for just being there to support us as we evolve.

[0:52:25] Jason: Yeah. Okay. Bye.

[0:52:26] Caroline: Bye.