238 - We’re having a baby! 😱 (Fertility journey update)

[00:00:00] Caroline: Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help online creators like you build a calm business, one that's predictable, profitable, and peaceful. We're your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an unboring business coaching program, and Teachery, an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.

[00:00:29] Jason: All right, cinnamon rollers, that's you. Let's get into the show.

[00:00:37] Caroline: It is a gorgeous day here in Portugal.

[00:00:40] Jason: Thank you. Good intro.

[00:00:41] Caroline: You started.

[00:00:41] Jason: Yeah, that was nice.

[00:00:42] Caroline: But isn't it really a beautiful day? I have been just...

[00:00:45] Jason: You've been craving a beautiful day.

[00:00:47] Caroline: I need the sun.

[00:00:49] Jason: I mean, okay, obviously people clicked into the episode. They saw the title of the episode. But we have to preamble first.

[00:00:57] Caroline: We do.

[00:00:58] Jason: We do because that's what people listen for.

[00:01:01] Caroline: This whole episode is the pram...

[00:01:03] Jason: We moved. 

[00:01:04] Caroline: Okay, we moved, but that's not what they're here for. We'll do a whole other episode about preambling the move.

[00:01:10] Jason: Why? Why would we do that? It's... it's topical. It's now. This is the thing.

[00:01:15] Caroline: You're gonna make them wait to hear all the juicy details.

[00:01:18] Jason: Our Ninja CREAMi now sits out on the counter. That is a big, big deal for me.

[00:01:24] Caroline: If I was a listener and I clicked in this episode, I know what I'm in for and I would be so...

[00:01:27] Jason: My creamers are so excited to hear that, now, the creamy doesn't live inside a cabinet. It now sits on a counter.

[00:01:35] Caroline: I don't think you've ever referred to them as that.

[00:01:37] Jason: Creamers?

[00:01:38] Caroline: Before.

[00:01:39] Jason: Where are my creamers?

[00:01:40] Caroline: And I don't like it.

[00:01:41] Jason: Let's just quickly do a move recap because moving is always fun to share. This is the shortest move I think anyone's ever done in the history of moving. Although that's not true if you lived in like an apartment complex and you moved from like 25A to 26D. 

[00:01:56] Caroline: True.

[00:01:57] Jason: You won the short move award. But we literally moved three houses down the street.

[00:02:02] Caroline: Buddy, missed opportunity. You keep missing this opportunity to say three doors down.

[00:02:06] Jason: I know.

[00:02:06] Caroline: We moved three doors down.

[00:02:08] Jason: We did.

[00:02:09] Caroline: Okay.

[00:02:09] Jason: Yeah. We live a semi charmed life. We just do.

[00:02:12] Caroline: We're not the same band.

[00:02:13] Jason: No, I understand. I'm just. I'm just out here, you know, Blinking 182, you know.

[00:02:20] Caroline: Okay. 

[00:02:20] Jason: Having some...

[00:02:21] Caroline: You saved it. You saved it.

[00:02:24] Jason: Yes. So we moved this past weekend.

[00:02:27] Caroline: Yes.

[00:02:27] Jason: And thankfully our good friend Nuno helped with some of the things that you couldn't help carry.

[00:02:33] Caroline: And I couldn't carry them. Why, Jason?

[00:02:35] Jason: Because you're already carrying.... Ehh, what's up? Which we'll get to. Calm down. But yeah, Nuno, super helpful to move all the things you couldn't help move, because otherwise, if you weren't carrying a baby, we could have carried all of the furniture that we had.

[00:02:50] Caroline: I like helping you in the move. I want to give you a huge shout out.

[00:02:53] Jason: Yeah.

[00:02:54] Caroline: Publicly. In this declaration.

[00:02:56] Jason: Fantastic. Of independence.

[00:02:57] Caroline: Of independence. You literally did 95% of this move and you did it in like three days.

[00:03:03] Jason: That's how I roll. And I do have to give some credit to the fact that the homes are furnished, so I did not have to move every single item in the home.

[00:03:11] Caroline: Totally. But it was also really nice to not have to pack up our stuff, really, in boxes.

[00:03:16] Jason: Yeah. This was...

[00:03:16] Caroline: You know what I mean?

[00:03:17] Jason: It was a very weird move because I used our car to move.

[00:03:20] Caroline: Yeah. You're quite literally just like, oh, let me clear out this cabinet. And like, we put a couple things in bags and stuff. And then you like, load up the car. Then you'd...

[00:03:27] Jason: Tile everything in the car and...

[00:03:28] Caroline: It was great.

[00:03:29] Jason: Unload it and load it. Yeah. We're very fortunate. The homes that we moved into, they're three story homes and they do have elevators in them, which, by the way, they're called lifts because they are technically.

[00:03:40] Caroline: It's like a little freight elevator. 

[00:03:40] Jason: Yeah.

[00:03:41] Caroline: For this exact purpose. So that you can move furniture.

[00:03:44] Jason: They are the slowest moving things you've ever...

[00:03:46] Caroline: They're not for people.

[00:03:47] Jason: Experienced ever. Ours in the previous house, like, crapped out halfway through. It just like got stuck or whatever. This is, again, we rent. We did not buy these homes. So I just always like to caveat with that. But it was very helpful to be able to not... I still did 180 flights of stairs. My Apple Watch told me in three days. And I walked 27 total miles.

[00:04:07] Caroline: And I unpacked closet, so...

[00:04:10] Jason: And you did unpack your closet.

[00:04:12] Caroline: So... kind of the same.

[00:04:14] Jason: Yeah, I did a good job.

[00:04:14] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:04:14] Jason: But I, yeah, I say all that because acknowledging the fact that, yes, I did 95% of the work, but I did have some help like...

[00:04:20] Caroline: You did. You did an amazing job. You're fantastic at moving. Your brain just, like, is built for it. It's very efficient at it and I'm very grateful because here I am and it feels like I just blinked my eyes. And now I live in a different house. And also people might be wondering, like, oh, well, why'd you move? Our... We were on sort of a year to year lease on our previous home and the owners of that home were just kind of using it as a long term rental. But now they want to use the house.

[00:04:46] Jason: They've never stayed in the house.

[00:04:47] Caroline: They've never stayed in the house. We were the first people to live in the house, so they want to use that house now. And so we were able to then move to this unit, which we were able to get a three year lease, which is very appealing for two people who are about to welcome a third member of their family. And we have a little bit of stability in those like newborn years.

[00:05:07] Jason: Do you remember the conversations we were having last year, especially last summer, when we were trying? And we knew that like there was this pending, like, is our lease going to renew for a longer time? Is it not going to?

[00:05:18] Caroline: Right. We were, it was very uncertain of how the timeline was going to unfold and we were like, oh my gosh, are we going to be in the middle of a move? And... And it worked out.

[00:05:27] Jason: And it did work out really well. I wanted to ask you, before we finish the preamble, because we don't have to go on much longer, what are your three favorite things about this house compared to the previous house? Because they're very similar, except for the fact that the first floor and the second floor and there's like a basement area basically are flipped in the layout. So before we had our living dining, kitchen, all one floor at the top. Now that floor is on the middle and the bedrooms are on the top floor.

[00:05:53] Caroline: Yes. To answer your question, number one, I absolutely love our office.

[00:06:01] Jason: Okay. Yes.

[00:06:02] Caroline: So what we did was we took the primary bedroom.

[00:06:05] Jason: It's the bedroom. It's the room with the best view in the house.

[00:06:07] Caroline: You can see the ocean from the primary bedroom. But when we use our bedroom, our little peepers are closed and you can't see the ocean. And so where do we spend like our entire days? Sitting in our computers working. So we decided to make that our office. It is a little bit silly that we have a bathtub connected to our office.

[00:06:24] Jason: Yeah.

[00:06:24] Caroline: Because the primary bathroom is right there. But I love that space and I already told you this. So at our previous house, our desks were in the living room because again, best view. And I never really realized this, but it was hard to be super productive because I would get like a, you know, one or two hour good stretch in and then the couch is right there and it's...

[00:06:46] Jason: Calling your name.

[00:06:47] Caroline: Like mentally, it's, it's, I'm in like relaxation mode. Here, I have a very delineated. This was also very intentional because we know, like, once we have a kid, it's helpful to kind of be able to work behind closed doors.

[00:06:59] Jason: Yeah. Have separate spaces.

[00:07:00] Caroline: Have separate spaces. And so we were mindful of that. And I just love having a little separate... Separate workspace.

[00:07:07] Jason: Yeah. So our primary bedroom, which is now our office, is probably about 70% set up. We are waiting on a cute little couch that we bought for in there and then...

[00:07:16] Caroline: Which is where we'll probably be recording this pod.

[00:07:18] Jason: Exactly. So right now we're in our like standard living room on the couch setup, but we, we will probably use that. And I'm excited to show it to everybody because it's going to be like kind of a little bit funky and fun.

[00:07:28] Caroline: Yeah. We decided that if we were going to be here for three years, we should add a little bit more personality to our place because, again, these places come furnished and it's a very like, inoffensive design style. I would say it's very sort of light, bright, airy. I don't know how to describe. Earthy. Organic.

[00:07:43] Jason: Yeah, it's like, it's like modern luxe, but not like too over the top.

[00:07:49] Caroline: Yeah. Just very neutral, I would say.

[00:07:51] Jason: Yeah. 

[00:07:51] Caroline: So the whole house ends up feeling very neutral, lack of personality. Beautiful, but very like vacation homey. And so we were like, if we're going to be here for three years, we like a little bit more personality in our design style. And so the office is really the first thing that we've given ourselves permission to decorate and add our personality to. So that'll be first. The nursery will be second. And then we'll just kind of work room by room. And you know, we're not the type of people to like, we're not big like home DIY people or big like decorating people, but we do like making a space feel our own.

[00:08:23] Jason: Well, I guess we'll just do our one favorite thing. So we can just finish this preamble and we'll get into the thing that everyone clicked and listened to.

[00:08:29] Caroline: Exactly.

[00:08:30] Jason: My favorite thing is we now have a garage again.

[00:08:33] Caroline: Yes.

[00:08:33] Jason: And I really like that, like...

[00:08:35] Caroline: We had a carport before.

[00:08:36] Jason: We had a carport before. I, I like that I can pull the car in, nestle it in. It's an easier parking situation to get in because you always had to do a three point turn to get in and out of our previous place.

[00:08:48] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:08:48] Jason: Which is totally fine. It's not a big deal. But in just, like, your daily routine, it's like. It's just kind of a little bit of a pain. Whereas this is like, I can just pull in, like, normal, and I can just leave, like normal. Uh, so it makes my little heart happy because I don't have to like, constantly think, like, I gotta do this. I gotta pay attention. I'm gonna do this. Now I can kind of, like, more on autopilot. And the garage is, like, really spacious, so we can like, organize all of our, like, odds and boxes of Christmas decorations and whatnot. So. 

[00:09:12] Caroline: You almost said...

[00:09:13] Jason: I did. And, yeah. So that's, that's a preamble. So we're, we're moved. It took us about three days to get everything, you know, pretty much over.

[00:09:22] Caroline: The beginning of a new era in more ways than one, Jason.

[00:09:25] Jason: And it is amazing. We've lived here. These are furnished homes, and we still accumulated a bunch of crap. So if anybody's listening to this and you, like, feel bad, you're like, oh, I accumulate. Everyone accumulates.

[00:09:35] Caroline: And we even, like... I would consider us not highly consumeristic people.

[00:09:39] Jason: Yeah.

[00:09:40] Caroline: Not minimalist, but not, like, highly consumeristic people especially because, like, here, it's just in Portugal, it's, it's a lot harder to, like, rely on Amazon every day. We still do, but, like, I'm just saying, compared to what we did when we lived in the States, it's a lot easier to not be so buying things all the time. And even then... 

[00:09:56] Jason: Yeah, you still accumulate stuff.

[00:09:57] Caroline: You still get stuff.

[00:09:58] Jason: But I will say, for anybody listening to this, if you haven't done a big clean out in, like, two years or three years or five years.

[00:10:03] Caroline: Now's the time.

[00:10:03] Jason: Just do it. It feels so good. You feel so much lighter.

[00:10:07] Caroline: I think that's why I like moving, honestly, is because it's, like, always a refresh. 

[00:10:10] Jason: A forced clean out. For sure. Yeah. All right, that's enough.

[00:10:17] Caroline: Tell everybody.

[00:10:19] Jason: I think this is going to be an episode for Carol to tell everybody.

[00:10:22] Caroline: I'm so excited. Oh, we've had a secret. I hate secrets. I hate secrets so bad.

[00:10:28] Jason: We have recorded, what, like, 12 podcast episodes?

[00:10:32] Caroline: And I've been a big fat liar all of them, and I hate it. And I deserve bad things. 

[00:10:37] Jason: Oh, my gosh. 

[00:10:38] Caroline: I'm just kidding. I... we are very excited to finally be able to share with all of you... that we are having a baby. A human baby.

[00:10:48] Jason: It's one baby. We know that.

[00:10:49] Caroline: One baby. There was a brief moment where I was a little scared it was...

[00:10:53] Jason: Yeah. There was nothing for us to be afraid of, like, from a medical perspective.

[00:10:58] Caroline: You remember that first little... that first ultrasound?

[00:11:01] Jason: Yeah. But then you looked at a bunch online and it's like everybody saw it.

[00:11:02] Caroline: It's fine. Okay. So there is one baby. And we... We are almost 15 weeks along, in case you're wondering.

[00:11:10] Jason: Yeah.

[00:11:11] Caroline: And for those of you who are joining us and are not sort of caught up on our fertility journey, it was a little bumpier than we thought to get here, which is why what makes this extra special and extra exciting. We, just a quick brief update. So we started trying last summer. We had two almost back to back chemical pregnancies, which were very hard and emotional and just confusing in a lot of different ways. We shared that with all of you on I think one or two podcast episodes. I think I wrote down here, episode 223, I guess is where we last left off. And so we were... We had just started to get testing done to find out maybe why that was happening because, after two, it was the same exact spot. They're very, very early losses.

[00:12:03] Jason: Same exact spot in the timeline.

[00:12:04] Caroline: Same exact timeline. Exactly. And so my intuition was just telling me, like, something is going on here. And I'm very lucky that we, my doctor was very, here in Portugal, was like, very eager to also play detective and find out why is this happening? Because I have heard from other women especially who end up having my conditions, that it takes them many more miscarriages. It takes them...

[00:12:29] Jason: To find out.

[00:12:29] Caroline: Many more months to have to like, advocate for themselves to get these tests done. And I just went to my doctor and I said, hey, I think it's this blood clotting thing. Can we run a panel? And she said, absolutely. So we had a pretty good indication that maybe it was this factor 5 Leiden thing is like what we thought it was, which is a genetic mutation that just like makes your blood clot too much. Okay. Turns out I actually have two blood clotting disorders.

[00:12:57] Jason: Wow, good for you.

[00:12:58] Caroline: I just really, like, overachieved in that.

[00:13:00] Jason: I wouldn't get one.

[00:13:01] Caroline: So not only do I have this genetic mutation, we confirmed it with testing that my mom has as well, that causes your blood to clot more easily. But I also have an autoimmune condition where when your body's pregnant, it clots too much. So the sucky part is I have two of those things. The good news about that is that it's the same treatment for both. And so my doctor was like, okay, we confirmed that you have both of these things. So what we're going to do is we're going to, first, we're going to put you on low dose aspirin right away because I asked. Baby aspirin. Baby ass. 

[00:13:35] Jason: Baby ass.

[00:13:36] Caroline: We call it baby ass.

[00:13:36] Jason: Yeah.

[00:13:37] Caroline: And...

[00:13:38] Jason: Because why not just...?

[00:13:38] Caroline: Because why not?

[00:13:39] Jason: Try and make something fun?

[00:13:40] Caroline: Exactly. And so that was the first thing that I could do. And then she's like, you know, we... Whenever you get pregnant again, you can start taking blood thinners, these daily injectable blood thinners. And that is the treatment for the condition that you have. APS and Factor 5 Leiden, and then that will help to thin your blood. And so whatever is happening with the clots and like the, the normal formation of like your placenta and all these hospitable things that need to happen for a baby to grow, that's gonna have a better outcome. So I honestly, I just wanna pause there for the confusing emotional state that I was in hearing that news. I had done my own research, so I had sort of been prepared that I could have this thing, this APS thing. With my early test results were kind of pointing to APS. And I was like, oh, my God, what are the odds that I have Factor 5 and APS? And I looked up some stuff online and it, like, kind of scared me a bit because I was starting to see the stuff about, like, daily shots. That freaked me out. You hear blood clots, you think stroke, you think pulmonary embolism. Like, I, you know, my brain kind of was like, this is scary. But I am proud of myself that I didn't let my brain run wild in that regard. And I think I really focused on the relief of like, okay, there is a treatment for this and I can carry a healthy child. And there are plenty of women who have this condition and still go on to have healthy children. And I just like, really focus my attention on, like, how lucky are you that you know the answer to...? That you, that you have an answer.

[00:15:22] Jason: You're unlucky, but at least in that unlucky diagnosis, there is a plan to still give us a chance to conceive naturally.

[00:15:30] Caroline: Exactly. And I was like, the shots scared me, but I was like, I need to just focus on one day at a time. Like, I don't need to think about what it means to have to do shots for 10 months, because you have to do it from the moment you get a positive test until six weeks after you give birth. 

[00:15:43] Jason: Every single day.

[00:15:43] Caroline: Every single day, you're sticking a needle in. You're... You're injecting painful burning medication, and it's not freaking fun.

[00:15:51] Jason: Yeah. It's not like the, you know, because we talked about... We did the embryo freezing.

[00:15:57] Caroline: Yeah, we...

[00:15:57] Jason: But it's not like a simple... Like, those were like... 

[00:16:00] Caroline: Little baby needles. And that's not to take away from that experience because that... That is difficult as well.

[00:16:04] Jason: I'm just saying the difference between those, which are like, little, like, think like a little clickable pen is like the best way to describe them. Like, you click the pen and the little pen tip.

[00:16:12] Caroline: These are heftier. These are...

[00:16:13] Jason: These are like... These are like a needle. Like, like you would a... Picture when you're like, oh, I have to inject myself with something. It's like...

[00:16:17] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:16:18] Jason: That's the difference. And so...

[00:16:19] Caroline: So it scared me. It scared me for sure. But I was just, like, very resigned to be like, if this is what it takes, like, I'm ready to say yes and do it. And so... And I, like I said, I just felt grateful, but I, I'm sharing that bit of it because if you're listening to this and you think you might have this, or you find out you have this. 

[00:16:37] Jason: Or just anything seems like it's complicating your journey and you're not sure why, is to try to advocate for yourself to do some testing and get some more information.

[00:16:47] Caroline: Yes. And also if you do find out that you have to take medication or whatever, like, it's just... take it from someone who was, who was scared about their ability to do this every day. You can do it. I'm telling you. You can do it. It sucks in a certain regard, but you're stronger than you think you are. And it's really not that bad, truly. Like, you would... Like, it's really not that bad.

[00:17:08] Jason: Yeah. I mean, I would say that 23 and a quarter hours out of the day. 

[00:17:13] Caroline: I don't think about it at all.

[00:17:14] Jason: We don't think about it. We don't even talk about it. Like, it doesn't really come up.

[00:17:16] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:17:16] Jason: And then there's, you know, like, 45 minutes of, like, getting ready for it, getting set up, doing it.

[00:17:21] Caroline: Is it a good one? Is it a bad one? 

[00:17:22] Jason: Yeah, like...

[00:17:23] Caroline: Icing it after.

[00:17:24] Jason: Exactly. Like, that, that is a part of the day that, like, you just... You, you can't... And it has to be fixed at times. So it's not like you can just do it whenever. You kind of have to do it the same time every day. So, yeah, and I give you a lot of credit. Like, I, I was very nervous that you were going to do this. Throughout the entire process of this, we have just said like, I wish I could be the one to get pregnant because I can compartmentalize all my pain and emotions easily. And it's unfortunate that you have to. But yeah, you've handled it extremely well. And you have a very weird scoring system for when you tell me if it's a good or bad one. I still am not sure what the numbers mean.

[00:17:55] Caroline: I like to track whether...

[00:17:57] Jason: And I'm like, four is...? 

[00:18:00] Caroline: Four is good. One is bad. It's a four point scale. I don't know. I track it because it like, I like to see them. I feel stronger and more confident every time I mark one off. And there's something about looking back and seeing like, oh, most of them have been threes or fours. Which by the way, is pretty good.

[00:18:16] Jason: Yeah, yeah, that's good, everybody. It's a four star scale where four is the best.

[00:18:21] Caroline: So anyway, this is a silly thing. But okay. 

[00:18:22] Jason: So that was like the fall of last year.

[00:18:24] Caroline: So the fall of last year is we get this, these diagnoses and we find out that we're going to, that it is treatable but we're going to have to do the stuff. And so we take a break because... 

[00:18:33] Jason: Is that also when you found out about the progesterone? Same time? Didn't she say that too?

[00:18:37] Caroline: That I found out about what progesterone?

[00:18:39] Jason: So you'd have to take that as well?

[00:18:40] Caroline: No. So. Oh, she may have mentioned it. She was like, okay, part of your treatment plan is going to be the, the blood thinners and then the progesterone twice a day.

[00:18:48] Jason: If I'm coming off as like, I don't know what's going on, it's mostly just because we were just going to the doctor a ton and there's like a lot of things. 

[00:18:55] Caroline: Yeah. 

[00:18:55] Jason: Like, wait, we have to do this, we have to do that. And like it's a whole daily...

[00:18:58] Caroline: Yeah. And like, and I get it because it's... Yeah. It's like you're not the one shoving progesterone into your body every day.

[00:19:03] Jason: Yeah. But also, you know, it's like, okay, the first time we see, it's like, okay, gotta do baby aspirin. Oh, okay, we'll do that.

[00:19:07] Caroline: Yes.

[00:19:08] Jason: Okay, now you have to do shots. Okay, we gotta do daily shot. Okay, now you have to do two times a day progesterone suppositories. Oh, okay, we gotta do that. So it's like... And as the person who's not doing it, I then don't create like a system in my mind for categorizing it. So anyway, and just sharing that because it's, again, we're telling the story of this and like it's very overwhelming to go from, let's have a baby and we'll just try to, okay, yes, now you can try, but you need to take this medicine at night, take this shot at night, do this thing twice a day. And it's not like, well, I can just like see how it goes. It's like, no, you have to do this because your body won't allow you.

[00:19:41] Caroline: Yes, exactly. And I'll get to that because it did complicate things in the phase after we took a break because, well, I'll get to that. So we find out the diagnoses, we confirm basically that it's what we think it is. But there's like two follow up tests that we have to do to confirm confirm. And that was right before we go to... We go to the States in October. So we go back to the States for an entire month. We visit family. We decide to take a break. We don't want to worry about trying while we're like flying places and away from our doctors and all this stuff. And it was just a good time to just kind of like do a mental reset. Got to be with all my friends. It was fantastic. Then we get home. Oh, also we got sick. I got really sick in October when we were traveling. And so I was like, I wanted to give my body a little bit of time to bounce back and heal. So then. But then November rolls around. We're like, okay, let's start trying again. Doesn't work in November. Tricky though, because now we're in the phase where we know what the treatment plan is. And she's like, as soon as you get a positive test, you need to take this medication. And so November was tricky because I started to feel weird and I was like, am I or am I not? Is it too early? And I just was really scared to, I, I was scared to have it happen again, a chemical pregnancy again. And so I wanted. So anyway, we have a nurse friend and she was like, you're not going to do yourself any harm by taking the blood thinners if you feel like you think you're pregnant. So I ended up having, taking a week of blood thinners in November not being pregnant. And so you were kind of like, well, that sucked. That was for no reason. But again, it's what you have to do. But the reason I'm sharing that piece of it is because by November, I was feeling a little fatigued from just like, the, should I take the blood thinners? Should I not? Taking the, as you call them, the pool strips, the ovulation tests every day. Just the whole... it was now becoming like a medical...

[00:21:31] Jason: Yeah.

[00:21:31] Caroline: Situation that I just was, like, trying to adjust myself to. And so what I decided and what we decided was, and I hate how cliche this sounds, but we were like, November or December, it's the holidays. It's Christmas. We're not gonna care. We're not. We're gonna be more casual.

[00:21:48] Jason: Right.

[00:21:49] Caroline: We're not gonna stop trying. But we're not. I'm not tracking my ovulation. I'm not like... 

[00:21:55] Jason: Yeah, just like, over obsessing with.

[00:21:56] Caroline: I'm not obsessing. Like, I'm just... We're gonna take it easy. We're gonna be chill about it. And, and like, I know I hate telling people that because it's like, this is the annoying advice that people give you, which is like, oh, stop trying and it'll happen. But no, it's like, if you want to test your... The only reason why I feel like it still did work in December is because I had tested so many months, my ovulation. I knew exactly when my window was. It's just I didn't need to test anymore, and we could just be more casual about it.

[00:22:24] Jason: Yeah.

[00:22:25] Caroline: So I'm just sharing that for anyone who is still in the trying phase, like, don't listen to people when they're like, don't, you know, don't worry about it. It's like, no, like, do whatever feels right to you. But I did find it valuable for that one month to be more casual.

[00:22:37] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. And I think in that... that month, you know, it's... It's just, it's very hard because you're going through an emotional roller coaster of, like, we're trying. I'm feeling something different. And then, oh, like, nothing happened, you know, and that's like, you're kind of like, you're going up and down. You're going up and down. And obviously where we are now, the... You know, it doesn't look as difficult at all because hindsight is 20 20, but in November and in early December, it sucked because, you know, you're just trying to, like, navigate all these things.

[00:23:05] Caroline: And you try, like, if you're still in that phase and, like, you're disappointed or it's not working, like, you try to fast forward time in your mind because people will tell you, like, once it happens like you... It almost like all the rest of it will fade away. Do you know what I mean? Like, the hardship will fade away because you'll get to that point, and you try when you're in the thick of it to do that and believe that it'll all be worth it. But it doesn't make it easier in the moment. It's so hard in the moment. And so. So Christmas, you know, December rolls around, and I was, like, feeling weird. And I know what it feels like now because it's happened multiple times. And I was like, okay, I know it's early, but again, I have to test early because the earlier I can test and get a positive, the earlier I can start the blood thinners, and the... the better chance we have at keeping the pregnancy viable. And I had told myself, though, that I wasn't gonna, like, test early because I was like, I am not doing another month of blood thinners that's for nothing. And so I was like, I'm gonna play it cool, like, maybe. And so I remember I was feeling kind of weird, and I was like, okay, maybe I'll do the progesterone, but I'm not doing the injections. So I was like, let me just do the... that was, like, my tiptoeing into the water. I took a test, one of the little cheapos, and it was, like, the faintest line you've ever seen in your life. Jason couldn't even see it. He was like...

[00:24:26] Jason: I tried so hard. I moved around the house. I held it up to light.

[00:24:30] Caroline: Yeah. You're like, I don't see it. And I still have the test. And, like, of course, it's, like, long gone now, but, like, it is the faintest line you'll ever see. But, like, I was so confident I could see it. And so that was day one. And then day two rolls around, and it's still, like, barely visible. You can't see it.

[00:24:47] Jason: Yeah.

[00:24:47] Caroline: And.

[00:24:48] Jason: But I'm trying, though.

[00:24:49] Caroline: I know, but I can see it. And so I go, okay, Caroline, like, take the blood thinners. Like, it's time to, to, like, suck it up and start doing it. So I take the thinners, and then day three, I wake up, and we had never gotten a positive on, like, one of the digital, like, good tests. 

[00:25:05] Jason: Yeah, like a regular pregnancy test. 

[00:25:07] Caroline: Exactly because... 

[00:25:07] Jason: These were all pool strips.

[00:25:08] Caroline: With our, exactly, with our two, our two chemical pregnancies, we were doing the HCG strips. And what would happen is the line would get darker, and then it would get lighter again. And that's just, like, a telltale sign that, like, your HCG is then dropping and, like, you're losing the pregnancy. And so I have this, like, you know, these little traumatic moments around seeing that line get darker and then get lighter again. And... And then by the time, with the two chemical pregnancies, by the time I would take, like, a digital test, it would say, not pregnant, and so it just, like, sucked. But the third day, I wake up, and I'm, like, trying to, like, not get my hopes up. I take the cheapo. The pool test again, and it is dark. It is dark.

[00:25:51] Jason: A line everyone can see.

[00:25:53] Caroline: Yeah. And I freaked out. I was like, oh, my God. And then... because, again, I have not seen. I'm used to seeing darkening line. Darkening line. Lightening line. Lightening line. Right. And so I go, okay, I think I can take the... The real test now. So I took the, like, big tests. The, like, more expensive ones.

[00:26:11] Jason: Yeah.

[00:26:11] Caroline: And, like, you know, the plastic ones that you see and the digital. And my favorite, too, is that it was Portuguese, so it's like gravida.

[00:26:19] Jason: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:19] Caroline: And it said pregnant. And I just, like, we freaked out. And so my favorite thing about that is that day when we, like, knew for sure was New Year's Eve.

[00:26:30] Jason: So we got the 2024 goal of getting pregnant.

[00:26:33] Caroline: Our 2024 goal.

[00:26:34] Jason: Couldn't have waited any longer.

[00:26:36] Caroline: And it was just like, this perfect moment of, like, you know, this just the... the closing of a chapter of, like, such a tumultuous journey. And I know. I know. I just want to be so mindful. Like, if you're listening this far and you're still, like, if you're struggling with infertility or you're on that journey. I know people go so much longer having to wait, and I want to be so mindful of that, but I also want to validate my own experience and anyone else's experience that it doesn't... Like, however long you have to wait, it is a struggle, and it is a roller coaster, and it is a hard experience. And it felt like this. Like, this moment of, like, oh, my God, this could. This could be different.

[00:27:19] Jason: Yeah.

[00:27:20] Caroline: Because I had never seen that before. And so it was like, my brain.

[00:27:22] Jason: I'd never seen a line, so it was.

[00:27:24] Caroline: You never seen a line, period. Yeah. You were like, new.

[00:27:26] Jason: You starting to, like... I was starting to worry, like, Is Caroline seeing things?

[00:27:30] Caroline: No.

[00:27:31] Jason: And I didn't think that you were. But to actually see it on the test and to, you know, take the photo that we have that's just like our own personal selfie. Like, it's not for anybody else, but to like, have that as like a memory, you know, it was definitely like the first moment for me that made it feel real because I'm not experiencing.

[00:27:46] Caroline: Yeah. The roller coaster.

[00:27:47] Jason: Pregnancy feelings at all. So, like, in case anybody's curious, like, you know, there's no changes happening in my body during this process, so I'm just trying to be supportive. But that was the first time where I felt like, oh, wow, like I can be part of this in some way that feels like I know what's going on.

[00:28:04] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:28:05] Jason: And not just, yeah, I'm here to do my best.

[00:28:08] Caroline: Yeah. And then we... so we went and bought, like, sparkling cider and cheers to, you know, New Year's, which was lovely. And then thankfully they were able to get us in right away to the doctor, so we actually could confirm. Like, I think some people have to wait till like, eight weeks or even longer.

[00:28:25] Jason: Yeah.

[00:28:25] Caroline: But we went in at four weeks and we were able to confirm the pregnancy really early and then kind of get in on a track because they knew I was high risk. And so we have been lucky enough to go, even though it's kind of a pain in the butt to go so often to the doctor, but one of the silver linings of a high risk pregnancy is you get to see the baby a lot more.

[00:28:45] Jason: Yeah. I mean, we've been, just to share, we've been going to the doctor basically every single week since January. Like...

[00:28:52] Caroline: Almost every week.

[00:28:53] Jason: Yeah.

[00:28:54] Caroline: They're not doing scans every time, but, like, between, like, okay, we're going for a blood test.

[00:28:58] Jason: Yeah.

[00:28:58] Caroline: We're going to meet with the nurse. We're going for this test. For that test.

[00:29:02] Jason: Yeah.

[00:29:03] Caroline: For a scan. Like, it's just all different things.

[00:29:06] Jason: And just to share, because I know a lot of you listening to this are curious that because we live in Portugal and we don't live in the U.S. and most of our listeners are in the U.S. the medical system here, we go to a hospital that's a group of hospitals around Portugal, and it's incredibly nice and it feels very efficient. And even though the majority of, like, the people that work there don't speak English, the doctors that we have have all spoken English. And so it makes it very easy because, you know, you want to speak in Portuguese and you want to practice with them, but, like, not when you're talking about the health of your baby.

[00:29:37] Caroline: Exactly.

[00:29:37] Jason: So it's like, okay, like, can we just...? Can we speak English for this? And, and they're very kind and we're, you know, trying and doing things, but there was very, one, one very hilarious meeting that we had.

[00:29:48] Caroline: Yeah. Language moment.

[00:29:49] Jason: So we... When was this? This was like, right around the 10 week mark? Something like that?

[00:29:55] Caroline: Yes.

[00:29:55] Jason: Okay.

[00:29:55] Caroline: This was like, maybe that.

[00:29:56] Jason: This is like, once they, like, I think, like, fully confirm. Right. Like, you get past, like, this, like, first stage of, like, there's a baby in there. Like, we feel good about it. We can, like, talk to you about it because they want to get past that. Like, it's what we were waiting for.

[00:30:08] Caroline: Yeah. And especially I think in my case, like, with the...

[00:30:10] Jason: Exactly.

[00:30:11] Caroline: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this. That's right. Okay. So this was maybe my third ultrasound, I think. I think you're right. It was about 10 weeks. And so in Portugal, they give you this, like, book that you take with you to all your appointments where they like, write down your stats and like, any health things to do with your pregnancy. It's called your, like, Livreu de Gravidage. It's like your pregnancy book.

[00:30:29] Jason: Big book.

[00:30:30] Caroline: Okay. And so we kept hearing about this book and we were like, we had gone for like one scan, two scans. No book, no book. And I think it's because, like Jason said, they want to confirm that, like, they're waiting to like, kind of get you further along. And so finally, 10 weeks, we get... They're like, today you get the book. They checked the baby. Baby looks good. So they send us after the scan with my doctor, who we love. She goes, you're going to go back to the nurse. We think she's just going to give us the book and that's the meeting. And then we're going to leave. We sit down in the chair. She does give us the book and she just starts talking in Portuguese. 

[00:31:01] Jason: Doesn't speak much English.

[00:31:02] Caroline: So she's just talking in Portuguese. And again, if you've kept up with it, like, we take lessons every week, so, like, we're getting probably 50% to 60% of what she's saying, but we're asking lots of questions because we're not understanding everything.

[00:31:15] Jason: And there's a lot of words that we don't know. Like, it's a lot of, like, pregnancy related.

[00:31:18] Caroline: Pregnancy related words we don't know. Right, right, right. She started out talking about the hospital where we would give birth.

[00:31:23] Jason: Yes.

[00:31:24] Caroline: So it seemed like very pertinent information. Like, she wanted to let us know that because the hospital where we'll deliver is different than the one that we go to our appointments at. And so that seemed pertinent. I was like, oh, she's just making sure we know that. And then we're going to go. She's still talking about five minutes later. And Jason and I are like, okay. And we suddenly realize that she is just describing pregnancy.

[00:31:45] Jason: She's giving us the talk.

[00:31:46] Caroline: She's... We're getting the talk. She's like, suddenly, Jason, I look at each other when she starts describing, like, tres tramestres. That's three trimesters. Okay. Primaero trimestra. That's the first trimester. She's saying, like, you need to prioritize, like, your food and your...

[00:32:00] Jason: We're basically two 15 year olds who got pregnant and we are getting told how pregnancy works. 

[00:32:05] Caroline: Oh, she also mentioned there was like four different. She's like, you can have a cesarean section, you can have a vaginal birth. She's like, describing the different. And we're realizing like, oh, you know, maybe not everybody has done research and has been trying for, you know, a long time and has, like, understood what pregnancy is. And I was like, well, this is good, I guess, that people who don't know about pregnancy are learning about pregnancy in this meeting. But we are... Jason and I are looking at each other and we are dying inside because we are just getting like a Portuguese, like, seminar presentation on just the topic of pregnancy.

[00:32:36] Jason: 25 minutes later. 

[00:32:38] Caroline: 25 minutes later.

[00:32:39] Jason: We finally finish that meeting and we're like, okay, we got the talk.

[00:32:43] Caroline: We both feel like we need a nap because it is the most, like, Portuguese we've tried to comprehend in one sitting.

[00:32:48] Jason: Yeah.

[00:32:49] Caroline: And we are, like, exhausted.

[00:32:50] Jason: Yeah.

[00:32:51] Caroline: And it was just so, so, so, so funny. And by the way, we get to do that three more times because she is... You go back to her once per trimester to have this, like, seminar discussion.

[00:33:02] Jason: Yeah.

[00:33:03] Caroline: So that is just a funny little.

[00:33:05] Jason: That was a funny aside of the, of the medical system and, like, running into that. Okay. So that, that was the beginning of, or some of the first trimester, but I think you wanted to share just kind of like how that went. 

[00:33:20] Caroline: Well, yeah. So now that we are entering the second trimester, I was just. I'm always curious of, like, how people's experience was and I feel like I, you know, was lucky in a lot of regards that, like, I'm not, you know, throwing up or anything like that, but, but the nausea is something that you don't understand until you experience it. It is a different type of feeling.

[00:33:46] Jason: There was like a, you hit like the five week mark and you basically would wake up, you would come upstairs, you'd be like, who? I feel super nauseous.

[00:33:55] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:33:56] Jason: You would kind of like get a couple of things going in your day, you know, whatever that was. We would then, like, maybe go for a walk or whatever, maybe exercise, come back for lunch. And then by 2pm you were just, like, dead tired.

[00:34:09] Caroline: Power down. It was power down time. Yeah.

[00:34:11] Jason: And it was like every day was the same kind of.

[00:34:13] Caroline: And the fatigue. Yeah. Is something that people talk about, but again, very hard to understand until you experience it because it's like such a unique type of. I physically can't do things. However, I do feel lucky that, like, that only kind of lasted from, like weeks five to 10. I really started to turn a corner, like week 11. And then I got a stomach virus and I was just so sick for a week.

[00:34:40] Jason: Yeah. Just a different type of sick, too. If we're just saying it was the other end.

[00:34:45] Caroline: Yeah. It was just bad and really bad gas and it was very uncomfortable. 

[00:34:54] Jason: Yeah. Like, the thing you absolutely don't want because then it also makes you scared. You know, you're like.

[00:34:58] Caroline: It does make you scared. And I had a fever for, like, three days. And so we were nervous. And, you know, it was the first time being sick. And of course, like, we're already, like, on kind of high alert because we haven't gotten this far before and we're scared. And so our nurse friend was like, yeah, I, you know, the fever thing, like, if it doesn't go away by day three, like, I think you should go to the ER. So we did end up going to the ER and sitting there for two and a half hours and like, you know, because... and I understand why. Because we weren't, like, high priority. Oh, so you're just, like, having violent diarrhea. Okay, cool. Sit here for a while. But it was. But also just to share, like, even the ER experience here is, like, very... not bad.

[00:35:40] Jason: Yeah. No, I mean, it's very simple. And it's, you know, it's... I think it's a lot like the ER system in the US. It's just there's so many less people.

[00:35:49] Caroline: Exactly.

[00:35:49] Jason: That, like, it doesn't feel.

[00:35:51] Caroline: It's a much smaller waiting room. You're waiting for a lot less long. I think.

[00:35:54] Jason: Yeah. Like, like you said, I think we waited two hours. And, you know, the guy behind the counter was checking on you. And, you know, that was really nice because we did tell him that you were right. 

[00:36:02] Caroline: Yeah. He, like, snuck me in to a doctor who just hadn't left for the day, general practitioner. And so we went up there and do you remember? She was so great, but she put us... Put our minds at ease. She was like, I think she, because we were Americans, she was, like, trying to speak her, like, American... She spoke English, trying to do her American, like, culture thing to me. And she kept being like, girl, you have not had a good week, have you? She would say that, or she would say, oh, girl, you're not feeling good, are you? And so, Jason, I, like, still use that to this day. We're like, girl, you are tired, aren't you?

[00:36:38] Jason: You need a bowl of oatmeal right now.

[00:36:40] Caroline: And she was just so lovely. She, she put our mind at ease so much. She was like, the baby's fine. There's... I'm not seeing any red flags to, like, be worried about. Like, everything is okay. And so, slowly but surely, I did get better. But that was a miserable week because I was so mad. I had finally gotten, like, more energy. I'd finally gotten the nausea to go away, and then it was just like, I was just sick and I felt really bad. But other than that, I will say in general, not too bad.

[00:37:10] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, like, that first trimester was hard from my side because...

[00:37:15] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:37:16] Jason: Because you had... You were feeling so crappy. It's hard for me to see you feeling crappy. That's, like, my least favorite thing.

[00:37:21] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:37:21] Jason: I did have a little flare up of my back pain, which... Which I have learned is, like, my anxiety response. And so that only happens at night or when I'm sleeping. And, like, it... I had it pop up during that first trimester because I'm just seeing you every day, like, get up, not feel good, not be able to do much, and then, like, literally take a long nap or go to bed, like, super early. And so it just makes me scared, right? Because I'm like, I don't know, like, is all this normal? But that kind of passed. But, yeah, I mean, it was a lot of, like, I had to pick up the slack around the house and...

[00:37:50] Caroline: Yeah, and... and that was hard, too, because it's like, I'm already feeling... I had to contend with, like, a lot of feelings around productivity and, like, I can't work. My brain is not working, my body's not working. Like, very frustrating that my capacity is so diminished.

[00:38:06] Jason: For all the WAIMers listening in February, our coaching session. No, January, our coaching session. 

[00:38:11] Caroline: Where I just had to leave.

[00:38:12] Jason: You had to leave halfway through. Now you have a little bit of context of that, whereas like, that's why you had to leave. Like, I was advocating for you to not even do that coaching session.

[00:38:21] Caroline: Yeah, I wanted to at least be there.

[00:38:22] Jason: You weren't even making it to 2pm in the day without having a long nap. And so it was... It was very tough to kind of, like, you know, get through that stuff. But, you know, it's all things that we figured out together. And, like, I brought up to, like, I had to cook all the meals or pick up the slack. Like, I'm not saying that to complain. I'm just saying that it's like, that is the story of what happened. And it... it makes it, you know, in the moment, it's difficult because it's like, as the partner who I'm not doing the hard work of carrying the baby, but it's like I'm doing all of the other things and the keeping track of the businesses and all that, like, it does start to weigh on you, and, like, you can start to feel, you know, not resentment, because it definitely never got that far, but it's... You just start to feel like, okay, like, I'm doing literally everything.

[00:39:04] Caroline: Yeah, that, that, that fatigue really hits you in that logistical regard. And, you know, something that we had talked about several times is, like, first regarding, like, how hard it is for you to see me struggle. But I kept trying to remind you, like, hard does not mean bad. And so I think for the first trimester especially, like, I just kept trying to come back to this mantra of, like, hard does not mean bad. Like, just because I'm struggling, just because I'm going through a hard time right now, physically, that's normal. That is what should be happening right now. And, like, that doesn't mean we're doing it wrong. That doesn't mean. It just means things are harder to juggle right now. And some advice that I've gotten from, like, mom friends as well, is that you can carry with you through all of parenthood is like, no phase or season lasts forever. And so you just have to remind yourself, like, whatever the struggle is of this moment, it'll be a different one in a few weeks. But, like, you just have to remind yourself that, like, this is not the struggle forever. And it's like the nausea did light up and the energy did come back. And so if you can find a way to just tell yourself, like, hard is not bad, this is the set of challenges that we're dealing with right now. You know, with the work stuff, I really had to make peace with my capacity and just realize, like, our priorities are shifting and like we have built this business in such a way that intentionally so that these years where we are trying to start a family, like they're not going to be as growth minded and productive. Very similar to when we traveled for a year and it was like that wasn't the priority. And so we just need to come back to that. But I think yeah, we learned a lot in the first trimester just about how to communicate with each other and how to make sure that we have some of those like pressure release valves so that when you are feeling like you're just picking up all the slack, like what are ways that I can, you know, kind of take some of the stuff off your shoulders? Even if I can't physically help you or whatever, like just be vocal about this is not an expectation I have of you. Or like let's just order out food more instead of making you make all the meals like you know. So we, we navigated that I think well together. But as all things, when something is new, you don't know what you don't know.

[00:41:15] Jason: Yeah, for sure. It's, it's, it's challenging. You know all like you said like these, these phases don't last forever but it's also like you don't know what phase is coming next either. So it's just all a bit of a... the unknowns are unknown. So. 

[00:41:27] Caroline: Exactly.

[00:41:28] Jason: All right, so where are we now?

[00:41:31] Caroline: Like I said, we are almost 15 weeks. We have made it to the second trimester. I feel mostly normal, like energy wise. I do get a little tired at night and I have to go to bed earlier but nowhere near where it was in the first trimester. The nausea is gone, the food aversions are gone.

[00:41:48] Jason: Oh yeah. We didn't even talk about like there was a good month stint where like you could not look at meat, any meat.

[00:41:54] Caroline: Meat was my thing.

[00:41:55] Jason: Especially chicken. But like...

[00:41:56] Caroline: It was meat was the aversion. And then I didn't really have many cravings except for fruit.

[00:42:01] Jason: Big time fruit cravings.

[00:42:02] Caroline: Big time fruit cravings. I was... we called it... what did we call me? There were a couple of times in the middle of the night where I was just ravenously hungry.

[00:42:10] Jason: A little snack gremlin.

[00:42:11] Caroline: A little snack gremlin. And so like we went on a little staycation and like I woke up in the hotel and was so ravenously hungry that I had to like scurry in the dark to the bathroom, sit on the bath mat and eat a granola bar at 3am and Jason, like, woke up the next morning and found all the crumbs on the bath mat. And he was like, what happened? I was like, snack room. I'm like, I don't know, man. And, like. And then also, remember the clementine peels? I ate a gazillion clementines.

[00:42:36] Jason: Yeah.

[00:42:36] Caroline: So that was really the only, like, craving that I had. But I was like, oh, shoot. Like, this is real. People talk about it. This is real.

[00:42:42] Jason: Yeah. And it, you, I mean, it is a noticeable change from my side of things, of just, like, how much more capacity you have for everything in life, whether it's just, like, talking about business stuff, but also just, like, existing.

[00:42:52] Caroline: Yeah. Brain space, for sure. Physically, I... It's as though I've never worked out in my life, because, by the way, I have still gone to the gym, like, three, three days a week, and I'm... I do much less than I ever... than I did before. But I feel amazing, like, keeping up with that, and it feels really good. I was a little nervous in the beginning just because I didn't know what my... You know, you're just nervous to do anything. But it does make me feel physically better. Like, even with the nausea, working out really helped. It's also good for my blood clot clotting stuff, like, to get blood flow going. So I have kept up with the gym, but I am now getting to the stage where it's... I get out of breath, like, at the tiniest things, which is also why I couldn't help Jason move, because literally, I tried to bring two tote bags of things three doors down, and there's a small hill. It is not even a hill. It is just an incline. And by the time I got to the house, I was like, bro, I'm feeling kind of dizzy. I'm out of breath. I can't do it.

[00:43:48] Jason: Yeah.

[00:43:49] Caroline: And so he was like, hey, you need to sit down. And so I felt very like, what was my whole, like, fitness regime the year prior to getting pregnant? Like, four? Because I get so out of breath. Yeah, that's okay. But brain space wise, I have a lot more capacity. I can strategically think, like, in the first trimester, like, I couldn't even think think. Like, I just was, like, so miserable, like, some days that I just was like, I can't even get my wits about me right now, and I'm so tired.

[00:44:15] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely. It's good to see you able to, like, just be more of yourself. Even though when you come up the stairs, you're like you need a break every time. Which is funny because we live in a three story home. So like you're always going up and down the stairs or something.

[00:44:31] Caroline: And this is just like a really fun stage to be at because now that I am feeling better. And then like the, the last scan that we had, like you start to see this little baby and before it's just like a little peanut, but now it's like a full baby and it has a little profile and it has fingers and it has.

[00:44:50] Jason: We saw two legs, we saw two arms, we saw two hands, we saw a nose.

[00:44:53] Caroline: And like, you know, like all the cliches are true. Like it's so magical and like I just, it's, it's. I think there's a level of like when you have experienced some, some degree of loss. Like your brain sort of protects you from like not getting attached. Because like I want, I wanted to get attached, but it's like, yeah, you just, your brain protects you and it's always in the back of your head kind of this moment of like, hey, anything can happen. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying that that goes away. I will say that I've been a lot less anxious than I thought I would be. And I don't know if that's just because from the moment that we got that positive on the digital test, it's like a new pathway opened up in my brain because it's like you have the first chemical pregnancy, then the second thing, then the second one happens and it repeats the exact same pattern. But it's like with the third pregnancy, the moment that I got the positive on the digital, it like broke the pattern. Do you know what I mean? Because it was a new experience unlocked. This hasn't happened before. And so my brain was like, oh, my brain could more easily live in the possibility that this ending could be different. And so I have shared with friends that like I felt weirdly calm and confident from the beginning. It doesn't mean I don't have moments of doubt or moments of fear. And you know, those, those thoughts that are like, yeah, anything can happen. Like, but it's just no amount of worry or dress rehearsing grief has ever made it easier. And so I just, I think a lot of my healing has been beneficial in regards to my anxiety and I truly do not get wound up in those spirals anymore. And it is like a miracle.

[00:46:31] Jason: Yeah, it's great.

[00:46:33] Caroline: It's a miracle. So I just am trying to live in this place of possibility and focusing on the positives. And of course, I... You know, I have felt I have been lucky enough that, like, you know, our first trimester, like, nothing scary has happened. Like, I would say I had more cramping than I was prepared for, but then you look that up and it's, like, very normal. But those, like, cramping moments at night are, like, a very good opportunity for me to practice calm because your brain can go to the worst case scenario, but you're just like, this is normal. This is what's happening. Your uterus is expanding. There is a new tenant in your body. And so things are going to... Furniture is going to need to be moved. You know, drywall is going to need to be replaced in there. And so... And you've done a really good job of helping me stay calm. And also, it's been really fun to see you, like, I think the most animated I ever... I see you is, like, at the scans and we can actually see the baby.

[00:47:35] Jason: Yeah.

[00:47:35] Caroline: Because I think, like, most.

[00:47:36] Jason: Makes it real.

[00:47:37] Caroline: Yeah, exactly.

[00:47:37] Jason: I have no feeling.

[00:47:38] Caroline: Yeah, totally.

[00:47:39] Jason: I mean, in my body.

[00:47:40] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:47:40] Jason: So there's nothing I can attach to, which, you know, I've... I've started looking up stuff for, like, expecting dads and whatever. And I mean, to a T. Every single one says, like, even when the baby's born, like, I still don't feel like that much of an attachment yet. Like, I have to, like...

[00:47:54] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:47:54] Jason: It takes a couple weeks or months even. And I definitely think I will be that way not because I'm choosing to be that way, because I just... that's how I am naturally for anything. So yeah. I mean, it's that first time we heard that heartbeat, that was like, the first moment of it was like, oh, shit, this is real. Like... 

[00:48:09] Caroline: That was a fun moment because we didn't. It was very early. It was like six weeks. And we had no idea we were going to be able to hear the heartbeat that early. And she turned it on, and the emotion was so shocking that I started laughing, which when she's doing the ultrasound. So you would hear the heartbeat, and then... And then it would just be erratic because I'm laughing and she can't get a clear sound. And so then the three of us started. Then you started laughing, then she started laughing, and, like, I'll just never forget that moment. It was, like, such a sweet moment because it was so unexpected. So that has been a really fun thing. And what is the future of work for us, Jason? Like, what is our year gonna look like?

[00:48:49] Jason: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we definitely have a good, what, two months, you feel where you should have energy and like ability to work?

[00:48:59] Caroline: Yeah, anything's possible. But we're hoping and banking on like the next two to three months, I'll be able to do stuff.

[00:49:04] Jason: So I think we're really trying to kind of like get some like, even like evergreen type of things going and for sale. And so, you know, for the past six years, essentially seven years, we've only sold one thing, which has been WAIM Unlimited, as you all have heard who've been listening to the podcast. And we just finished a launch, which we'll do a full launch recap episode. Weird launch, everybody. If you've been talking to anybody who's had a weird launch or you've had a weird launch, it happened to us too, and we'll talk about that. But I think in these next kind of two to three months, we're really trying to put in places some other offers that are gonna be for sale at lower price points that have some type of like quote unquote funnel built in for them. But the goal is to really try and get those things in place. And then I think we will do a launch, you know, kind of towards the summer because we're not gonna be able to do one in the fall because our, our due date is... 

[00:49:54] Caroline: Late August. 

[00:49:54] Jason: Late August. So, you know, we're basically preparing for. We've got two months of like work that we can put in, like, kind of like normal effort of work, if you will. And then we'll probably have like two months after that of like much lower effort. Can't do a ton of things, but still do some stuff.

[00:50:11] Caroline: Shifting more to like final preparations before.

[00:50:14] Jason: And then, you know, obviously when the baby is born, we'll take some time off and I think we're going to do a whole podcast episode about our plan for parental leave. So we'll just kind of like cliff... cliffhanger that one for you. Because we haven't fully figured it out yet either. But we definitely want to because we've waited so long to have a baby. Like, we have set our lives up to be a lot more flexible than I think. I mean, I know would have been 10 years ago for us. Like, it just. We would not have been able to be like, well, what if we take three whole months off or, you know, what does that look like? Like, how would that work and what do we need to get in place? So again, we'll talk about that in a full episode. But yeah, I think we're we're both excited about obviously, this new chapter and, like, it's a whole new dynamic that we're going to have. And for everybody who listens to this podcast who has kids, and it's just been thinking, like, must be nice. Wait till you have kids. Like... 

[00:51:04] Caroline: Yeah, we're about to. We effed around and we're going to find out.

[00:51:07] Jason: Yeah, we are crossing into that chasm with you all and, and we're going to share with you our way of handling that, because, again, we live in a country that is not our home country. We don't fluently speak the language. We don't have a ton of friends. We have no family here whatsoever. So we're going to need help. It takes a village, as we all know.

[00:51:25] Caroline: So we are planning on having help.

[00:51:27] Jason: Yeah. So we'll... We'll talk about, like, what that looks like and how we're thinking about that again in, like, future episodes. And yeah, work is definitely going to change for us. But I think, you know, I... I've been thinking about this a lot is, like, the Travel year in 2022 was really a good precursor to what having a kid is going to look like for us because our capacity was so much lower. Just forced through daily life being you're in a new country, you're on a plane, you're on a train, you're traveling, you're moving, you're getting into a new place. And like, listen, I get it. That's not like having a kid.

[00:51:59] Caroline: No. But you just mean in the sheer amount of time that you have to sit down at a computer.

[00:52:03] Jason: I can literally open my laptop for two hours on this day, and even then, I don't even know if I'm gonna get one good hour. Like, the WiFi might not be good enough.

[00:52:11] Caroline: Your routines are disrupted, much like your routines will be disrupted with a kid. And it's just like, you know.

[00:52:16] Jason: And, and I, I think the other thing, we just want to share, too. At least I really want to share. And we haven't talked a lot about this, but, like, I do want to share some of the ways that we are going about our family planning and, like, fitting work into that. And, and I know it's not going to be perfect, and I know it's going to be so different from the way things are now, but I'm also just very interested because I like hearing about how other people set their things, their lives up.

[00:52:39] Caroline: Yeah. Configure their lives and... yeah. And we've, that's always been the... what we've done on this podcast is share, like, the intentional choices that we make in our lives knowing that it's never from a place of, this is the right way to do life. This is how you should set up your life. Like, it's... I hope you've been listening to this long enough to know that that's never where we share from a place of. And that we embrace everyone. Like, the reason we're sharing it is because you should set up your life in a way that is aligned with your values and what you want out of life. And every person's business is different. Every person's kid is different. Every person's, you know, relationship is different. Every person is different. And so it's like, how do you make intentional choices so that you can maximize your happiness and, you know, set up your life in such a way that it works for you? And also, like, you know, we have no intention of this podcast becoming all about kids. So if you're one of our listeners who is child free, like, you're still, like, very welcome here. And, you know, we understand that just because we're having kids doesn't mean that we think everyone should have kids.

[00:53:46] Jason: Yeah, exactly. It's more of just sharing, like, you know, how things are going to change and how we're adapting to it and just...

[00:53:52] Caroline: And there's going to be more of that and then probably the next year or two as, like, we make this big transition. Like, it's just a very natural part of sharing what's... What's happening in our lives. But in general, I think our approach to business still applies whether you have a family or not.

[00:54:07] Jason: Yeah.

[00:54:08] Caroline: Or kids or not, I should say. Everyone has a family. 

[00:54:10] Jason: Of course. Yeah. So for us, like, the next couple of months, obviously a lot of new adventures, a lot of, you know, doctor's appointments. I'm reading a couple books right now to like, wrap my head around the changes.

[00:54:24] Caroline: And my favorite thing that you do as of right now is you just, like, learn new terms and then you just, like, throw them out there. Much, much how you used to do with just like, legal jargon.

[00:54:33] Jason: Yeah.

[00:54:33] Caroline: You'd be like, objection, your honor. Sustained. Some submitting this into evidence.

[00:54:38] Jason: Like, just watches Mike as a mini once, you know, and just.

[00:54:42] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:54:42] Jason: Yeah.

[00:54:42] Caroline: And so now Jason will just. I'll just like, say something about something I learned or something. And he'll be like, whoa, what is... what is one that you just learned the other day? You love the shocking stuff. You're like, well, mucus plug.

[00:54:54] Jason: Yeah.

[00:54:56] Caroline: Or you'll be like, well, amniotic fluid.

[00:54:58] Jason: Yeah. You know what I mean?

[00:54:59] Caroline: You know what I mean? It's like my new favorite that you do is just like, any medical terms that you learn, you throw out there.

[00:55:05] Jason: Yeah. So, yeah, we'll... We'll share more of what this is like as we go along. And obviously, you know, as everybody knows who has kids, like, it gets more real and it gets more exciting here in the coming months because you're starting to have a bump.

[00:55:19] Caroline: Oh, she got a bump, y'all. 

[00:55:21] Jason: Start to feel the baby move, which we haven't experienced that a lot yet. Just maybe a couple little tiny things.

[00:55:27] Caroline: I just hit the stage where I'm like, oh, she gotta order a couple new pants.

[00:55:31] Jason: Yes. Yeah, exactly. None of the pants fit.

[00:55:33] Caroline: I have one pair of pants and one pair of leggings that fit comfortably. And that is not enough.

[00:55:38] Jason: Yeah, exactly.

[00:55:39] Caroline: That is not enough.

[00:55:39] Jason: But, yeah, I think we'll definitely be sharing, you know, more probably in the preambles, you know, just some updates on things. And then also, like I said, I do want to do some episodes. And, like, okay, what's our parental leave planning? You know, what's maybe, like, our family planning looking?

[00:55:54] Caroline: What's the future of WAIM look like as a business? How are we shifting? Because we're making shifts not just because of our shifting family dynamic, but also there are things changing in the world and in the online space right now, and what's used to work doesn't work anymore. And so you're going to hear a lot of that as well of, like, where you just got to pivot. How are we doing that?

[00:56:15] Jason: Yeah. Okay. I think that's it. Did we miss anything?

[00:56:18] Caroline: I don't think so. I mean, if you have any questions, email us.

[00:56:21] Jason: Oh, I thought you were asking me if I have any questions for you.

[00:56:23] Caroline: Well, I know you have questions.

[00:56:24] Jason: Right. Do you think your belly button's gonna turn inside out, or do you think it's gonna stay?

[00:56:28] Caroline: One of the fully inside out ones? 

[00:56:29] Jason: Yeah. 

[00:56:30] Caroline: I think it'll stay.

[00:56:32] Jason: Yeah.

[00:56:32] Caroline: I don't think it will be a popper. 

[00:56:33] Jason: Because it had really good depth. It had really good depth to start.

[00:56:35] Caroline: Yeah. It was a very cavernous belly button to begin with. And so I think I have some room to.

[00:56:39] Jason: Room to expand.

[00:56:40] Caroline: Room to expand.

[00:56:40] Jason: All right, we'll find out. Room to go.

[00:56:42] Caroline: But there is a freckle in my belly button that has now, this is like our joke is, like, you can tell the belly is growing because the freckle is much more visible than it used to be. It used to be on the inside. Now it's on the outside.

[00:56:54] Jason: Yeah, it's very funny.

[00:56:55] Caroline: It's very funny.

[00:56:56] Jason: Well, yeah, just to kind of wrap up. Very excited. 

[00:57:00] Caroline: Very excited. 

[00:57:00] Jason: So happy that we were fortunate enough to figure out all the... 

[00:57:05] Caroline: Medical stuff.

[00:57:05] Jason: Medical stuff, and, like, have solutions for that that feel very approachable and affordable here. Like, I don't know what the price difference would be in the US but as we talked about before, like, we don't pay a monthly medical insurance. We pay it by year. And what we pay for a year here is what we used to pay per month in the States.

[00:57:23] Caroline: And the medication, like, by these standards, it's not cheap. Although now that we have a public health number, we could probably get it for free.

[00:57:29] Jason: Right. I think the next time we go, we'll find out because we can give them our public health number. We may not have to pay for it. 

[00:57:34] Caroline: Okay. So we may not have to pay for it, but even with paying for it with our insurance, it has been affordable medication, which we feel very lucky for. And. Yeah, and I'm. I am just really grateful that there is a solution. And, you know, we have to be mindful about, like, taking care of myself throughout, through birth and delivery and postpartum and making sure the blood.

[00:57:55] Jason: That's your job.

[00:57:57] Caroline: Oh, that's just my job.

[00:57:58] Jason: Yeah.

[00:57:58] Caroline: That's my job.

[00:57:58] Jason: I'm gonna take care of the baby.

[00:57:59] Caroline: Oh, you gonna take care of the baby?

[00:58:01] Jason: I think so.

[00:58:01] Caroline: 100%?

[00:58:02] Jason: Well, we said we're gonna get help. So, you know. 

[00:58:07] Caroline: I am just. I am so excited to meet a little human being.

[00:58:11] Jason: Yeah, for sure. 

[00:58:12] Caroline: Part you and part me.

[00:58:13] Jason: A tiny Zook-ini, as a friend of ours here calls them.

[00:58:16] Caroline: A Zook-ini, so your grandpa calls them Zookling, which is very cute.

[00:58:21] Jason: That's cute. That feels like an alien, though.

[00:58:23] Caroline: I know, but it is an alien.

[00:58:24] Jason: It is true.

[00:58:25] Caroline: Like, we are very aware of... I'm not one of those people who's like, birth is the most beautiful. I'm like, there's an alien in my body. 

[00:58:32] Jason: Yeah.

[00:58:33] Caroline: There's an alien in my body. We can acknowledge how freaky this is.

[00:58:36] Jason: Yeah, this is weird.

[00:58:37] Caroline: It is beautiful, but it's also freaky deaky.

[00:58:39] Jason: Yeah. Okay. I think that's it.

[00:58:42] Caroline: Okay. Thank you all for all of your kind messages back when we shared some of the harder times, and thank you in advance for all of your kind messages of support during this and sharing our happy news. And for those of you who are still maybe listening to this and it's still in a difficult place with your journey of trying to, you know, have kids. I just want to share with you that I'm with you. And I hate that it has to be hard for you and being on this side. Like, I'm not gonna be one of those people who's like, it'll all be worth it, but. But I just. I. I am with you in solidarity and keep going and take it one step at a time. And I hope that it all turns out the way that you want.

[00:59:30] Jason: You give an emotional goodbye, and I'll give my goodbye, which is all the dads out there squabble up.

[00:59:34] Caroline: Squabble up.

[00:59:35] Jason: You know, that's what we need to do.

[00:59:37] Caroline: That's right.

[00:59:38] Jason: Okay. Goodbye.

[00:59:38] Caroline: Okay. Bye.