236 - Business is overcoming these 6 roadblocks

[00:00:00] Caroline: Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help online creators like you build a calm business, one that's predictable, profitable, and peaceful. We're your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an unboring business coaching program, and Teachery, an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.

[00:00:29] Jason: All right, cinnamon rollers, that's you. Let's get into the show.

[00:00:37] Caroline: There's two times a week when we are like, face to face, looking directly into each other's eyes, lovingly.

[00:00:44] Jason: Only two? Go ahead. 

[00:00:47] Caroline: Get your minds out of the gutter. It's when we podcast because we sit across from each other and then if we go on like a little date night, we sit across the table from each other. And I had.

[00:00:55] Jason: What about lunch or dinner? 

[00:00:57] Caroline: When we sit at the table?

[00:00:58] Jason: Yeah.

[00:00:58] Caroline: I mean, sure.

[00:01:00] Jason: Just because we so rarely eat lunch or dinner together.

[00:01:02] Caroline: No, we do, but yeah, I would say like 50% of the time we eat kind of in our own space and 50% of the time we eat together. We used to when... You know what it is, when the weather gets warmer, we eat together more often. Have you noticed that? Like in the summer, we eat at the table almost every lunch together?

[00:01:17] Jason: It's because when you're cold, you got to be by yourself.

[00:01:19] Caroline: It's just when you're cold, you're just like, breathing. And it's funny because we like, live in Portugal. It's not even that cold, but it's like I'm just out here surviving.

[00:01:25] Jason: It's not cold compared to what everybody else is doing.

[00:01:26] Caroline: And, and we've established I now know I have seasonal depression. So I'm just like out here trying to, yeah, friggin bundle up and like, get through, survive.

[00:01:34] Jason: All right, we have four preamble tops. We got to get through quickly.

[00:01:36] Caroline: Let's top them.

[00:01:37] Jason: Okay. The first one is one I was thinking about in the grocery store the other day, as the grocery getter of our household, which I believe that in a household there, one person is the grocery getter and the other person is the somewhat frequently goes to the grocery store but couldn't tell you where anything in the grocery store is type of person. 

[00:01:53] Caroline: Better at it than the other.

[00:01:54] Jason: Like, obviously I'm the grocery getter in our household and I have a very specific route that I go.

[00:02:00] Caroline: Oh my God.

[00:02:00] Jason: And I also fill out my grocery list based on where things are in the grocery store. Shout out to all my grocery list organizers, know what's up. 

[00:02:08] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:02:08] Jason: But what I wanted to share was the other day, I'm buying clementines.

[00:02:11] Caroline: Sure.

[00:02:12] Jason: And I just had this moment where I was like, where did an orange come from?

[00:02:16] Caroline: Where did it come from?

[00:02:17] Jason: Yeah, like...

[00:02:17] Caroline: A tree.

[00:02:18] Jason: And how long ago was it around? Like, what's the origin story of an orange? Is what I was curious about.

[00:02:24] Caroline: Okay, first of all, have you wondered this about any other food?

[00:02:27] Jason: Yeah, for sure. Did you know bananas had seeds when they were first found? Like big hard seeds? You had, like.

[00:02:32] Caroline: I think I did know that.

[00:02:32] Jason: Yeah. I think that's a common one. But this, this I think is a little bit of fun here. When were oranges first discovered? What's your guess?

[00:02:41] Caroline: The beginning.

[00:02:42] Jason: When? Like, what's... What's like a date?

[00:02:45] Caroline: 500 A.D.

[00:02:47] Jason: Very good guess. 314 BC.

[00:02:50] Caroline: Oh, shoot.

[00:02:50] Jason: That's the first written origin of an orange thing. Okay, second thing. Where do you think oranges came from?

[00:02:58] Caroline: Again, I don't know how to answer this question. Maybe like a morphing from something else. 

[00:03:02] Jason: No. Where? Where in the world?

[00:03:04] Caroline: Oh, okay. 

[00:03:04] Jason: Location.

[00:03:05] Caroline: Location.

[00:03:05] Jason: Give me the geo.

[00:03:05] Caroline: It's got to be tropical, like near the equator.

[00:03:08] Jason: Yeah. 

[00:03:09] Caroline: Ecuador.

[00:03:10] Jason: Southern China, northeast India, and I think it's Myanmar. Is that you say Myanmar? Uh, so that's exciting. I didn't know that. But here's the thing that's gonna blow your mind. It's not really gonna blow your mind, but I didn't know this. Oranges.

[00:03:22] Caroline: But now wait. Now I'm wondering, what's the connection between mandarin oranges?

[00:03:25] Jason: Could be a good question. Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:03:26] Caroline: Right? That makes sense.

[00:03:28] Jason: Oranges were named orange as a fruit.

[00:03:32] Caroline: Okay.

[00:03:33] Jason: They were not orange in color when they were first found.

[00:03:36] Caroline: You gotta be...

[00:03:37] Jason: They were yellow and green.

[00:03:38] Caroline: Absolutely not.

[00:03:39] Jason: And they were bred.

[00:03:41] Caroline: That is...

[00:03:42] Jason: To become a more vibrant color and sweeter because they were always just really tart, citrusy.

[00:03:48] Caroline: I mean, that kind of makes sense. Like more like a grapefruit, maybe.

[00:03:50] Jason: More like a grapefruit, maybe. More like a lime or a lemon is probably more apropos.

[00:03:53] Caroline: But the oranges look like more like grapefruit.

[00:03:55] Jason: So I... That blew my mind. An orange did not start out color orange.

[00:04:00] Caroline: And then we... I don't know, man.

[00:04:02] Jason: And then we adapted to probably be like, hey, that's orange in color. So that's the color.

[00:04:06] Caroline: Anyway, I have some doubts about...

[00:04:08] Jason: That's absolutely fine. You can.

[00:04:09] Caroline: The word or the name orange came first. That's our next rabbit hole we need to figure out.

[00:04:13] Jason: Okay, so that's pramble top number one. That is your fruit fact of the week.

[00:04:17] Caroline: Thank you. I'm doing some fact checking on that. I still feel a lot of doubts about that.

[00:04:22] Jason: This podcast is brought to you by Big Fruit. Go ahead and give them the ad read of Big Fruit.

[00:04:26] Caroline: You know, fruit, delicious, sweet, mm, tasty. Buy it all.

[00:04:32] Jason: Bigfruit.com. Okay, second thing. By possibly, maybe not, but possibly by the time we record our next episode... 

[00:04:41] Caroline: We might be living in... a new country. Just kidding. A new house. Just kidding.

[00:04:45] Jason: We are moving.

[00:04:47] Caroline: We're moving.

[00:04:47] Jason: Is what we're getting to. It's a very far move.

[00:04:51] Caroline: It's so far.

[00:04:51] Jason: We live in a row of homes. There are eight homes.

[00:04:54] Caroline: Eight homes.

[00:04:54] Jason: We live in the seventh of the eight.

[00:04:56] Caroline: Wow, way to put our address on blast.

[00:04:58] Jason: We are moving to the fourth of the row of eight.

[00:05:01] Caroline: We are moving three houses down.

[00:05:03] Jason: It is the shortest move we have ever made in our entire lives and we typically move every two to three years. And this is going to be the shortest one by far with the least amount of change.

[00:05:12] Caroline: The shell of the house is exactly the same, but what's really freaky is that the inside, quite literally, like the dimensions of the house are identical, but the inside of the house has a flipped floor plan. So we have a three story house. Our living space is on the top floor in our current house. The new place that we're renting, the living space is on the middle floor and all the bedrooms are on the top floor. It's going to be a real topsy turvy time for us.

[00:05:39] Jason: We also are turning the primary bedroom of this house, which has arguably the best view.

[00:05:46] Caroline: Definitely the best view.

[00:05:47] Jason: Into the office. 

[00:05:48] Caroline: Because it has the best view.

[00:05:49] Jason: And so in our office, we'll eventually give you all a tour. For those of you who, you know, care about those things, probably on YouTube, I would imagine maybe we'll get a little something.

[00:05:56] Caroline: Maybe.

[00:05:57] Jason: But whatever, you know, have like a short video for WAIMers. 

[00:06:00] Caroline: You know how I feel about house tours. I feel very mixed, mixed reviews.

[00:06:03] Jason: I do understand you feel this way, but for WAIMers listening to this, you'll be able to see this. 

[00:06:07] Caroline: Sure.

[00:06:07] Jason: But are like the bathroom that has like the nice tub and like the bigger shower.

[00:06:12] Caroline: It's our office tub.

[00:06:13] Jason: It's our office tub.

[00:06:14] Caroline: Okay. Get used to it.

[00:06:15] Jason: My desk will have a direct view of the tub at all times.

[00:06:17] Caroline: I just realized, do you remember like in the...? I feel like this was a thing maybe in like the 50s and 60s, you know, like, big, big executive guys would have, like, bathrooms on their offices so that they could, like, shower at the office. And I don't know if that's used for any nefarious purposes.

[00:06:33] Jason: Of course. Let's just pretend. Let's just pretend they like to be clean.

[00:06:36] Caroline: These are the stories that I'm coming up with. But, but that was like, a sign that you were like a big wig is that you had, like an office bath. Like an office shower? Are you kidding?

[00:06:43] Jason: Yeah.

[00:06:43] Caroline: That's us. We're big wigs. 

[00:06:45] Jason: Toilet room. Sure. But a shower. We are big wigs. And we're actually gonna like, kind of decorate the office for the first time.

[00:06:51] Caroline: You were so excited. Listeners, Jason is so excited about decorating this office. He...

[00:06:57] Jason: Can we buy the couch, please?

[00:06:59] Caroline: Like, fixated on these cute things where he just is, like, so excited. Please see Ninja CREAMi. Please see any and all things he's been excited about.

[00:07:06] Jason: Yeah.

[00:07:07] Caroline: And you just. You're like, can we just decorate this, please? And I'm like, I've never, ever heard you so excited about decorating.

[00:07:14] Jason: Well, now we... We paid someone on Fiverr to design the room.

[00:07:18] Caroline: Did we pay someone on Fiverr? Or did you pay someone on Fiverr? 

[00:07:20] Jason: I did. I just finally gave up on you because...

[00:07:22] Caroline: You were so excited about decorating.

[00:07:23] Jason: You just... You took too long to do things. So I just took it in my own hands and I found...

[00:07:27] Caroline: Story of our lives.

[00:07:28] Jason: A, a great designer who actually, like, did a wonderful job with the layout and, like, I had a couple pieces of furniture and then asked her to pick some things and it just looks fun.

[00:07:36] Caroline: Controversial. I'm still not in love with the final design. You've been passing this thing around like it is your favorite thing you've ever seen.

[00:07:42] Jason: It's too bad. You take too long. I'm not waiting. I want to have a cute office. This is what we have, and we're moving forward.

[00:07:47] Caroline: I just want to be clear. I think it can be cuter, but I understand that.

[00:07:51] Jason: I'm not waiting seven years until we move out and then you have time to do the cuteness.

[00:07:55] Caroline: You know what? You're not wrong.

[00:07:56] Jason: The point of this is we are moving and the next time you hear our podcast...

[00:07:59] Caroline: And I don't really have the energy to do it. So I just feel like it is going to be good enough.

[00:08:03] Jason: Yeah. Actually, we probably will record the next episode before we move, but I just wanted to share with everybody. That's fun.

[00:08:08] Caroline: Yeah. You were so excited. You couldn't wait.

[00:08:10] Jason: You want to quickly talk about Survivor as your third preamble top? I'm going to leave my last one as the controversial one. Go ahead.

[00:08:15] Caroline: Sure. My third preamble top is Survivor. I'm back on the Survivor train. I never really left the train. I've always been like a Survivor fan. I watched the very first season of Survivor. I'm like an OG person. But then of course, as you do, you grow up, you fall off. You're not watching CBS anymore all the time. You're going to college, you're doing stuff.

[00:08:32] Jason: Except for NCIS Seattle, which we all watch. Yeah.

[00:08:35] Caroline: And then... We're kidding. We've never seen that.

[00:08:36] Jason: Never seen an episode.

[00:08:37] Caroline: But then during the... the 2020 times, I got back into watching full seasons and got rehooked, like fully hooked. Got into the new era. It's a totally different game than it used to be. I love the evolution of the game. And so I just told you that I bought like a full season. I think Survivor's the only thing I've ever bought a season of because we can't get it here.

[00:08:57] Jason: Yeah.

[00:08:57] Caroline: And I... I'm watching season 47 right now. What a great game. If you've never got... If you like games of strategy, if you like reality TV. It's not even reality TV. I think it's like its own category. 

[00:09:10] Jason: Survival TV. 

[00:09:11] Caroline: You gotta get into it. It's so good.

[00:09:13] Jason: We do have some Survivor heads who listen to this. 

[00:09:15] Caroline: The twists, the turns.

[00:09:16] Jason: Because we talked about it during the COVID years and I remember people came out... 

[00:09:18] Caroline: If you're a Survivor head, give us an email because just I gotta find my people out there.

[00:09:22] Jason: Also, do you have specific terms that you use as a Survivor watcher? Like, is it Survivorhead? I just made that up.

[00:09:27] Caroline: No, no, it's not Survivor head for sure. I mean, I don't know.

[00:09:29] Jason: Survivor viber. Like, what are you?

[00:09:29] Caroline: I think it's just Survivor fan.

[00:09:29] Jason: Survivalist? Anyway, all right, last pramble top to finish out strong here. We recorded an episode recently about not using social media.

[00:09:40] Caroline: At the top of the year. 

[00:09:41] Jason: And in that episode I was like, I'm not interested in posting on Instagram. I don't really care. And you were like, I could post on Instagram. I'm not sure.

[00:09:49] Caroline: Yeah, I was interested.

[00:09:49] Jason: In that time, you've started posting a little bit. Like, you did a little bit of your art to start the year. You were posting a little bit.

[00:09:56] Caroline: I broke the seal. I went back to my art account. I'm still not on there on the regular, but... 

[00:09:59] Jason: Yeah, I haven't posted a thing since twenty-twenty... two.

[00:10:02] Caroline: We did accidentally post a viral reel which we mentioned quite often.

[00:10:05] Jason: And I, for some reason yesterday, it just... And I think why this happened was because someone that I follow on Instagram posted and I hadn't seen them post in a while and they were like, hey, I've been around here in a while. Ask me anything. And I was like, oh, that seems like a fun way to like, share what I've been up to. 

[00:10:22] Caroline: Exactly what happened.

[00:10:23] Jason: And, and so I did it and ended up answering like 40 questions that people submitted, which felt fun.

[00:10:28] Caroline: Did you actually answer questions or did you just use an opportunity to post funny photos with stupid captions?

[00:10:34] Jason: Sounds like answering questions to me. But the, the very funny part of it was one person asked and you asked this morning and another person asked separate of being in Instagram was like, why, like, why did you post? 

[00:10:45] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:10:45] Jason: And I don't really have a good answer.

[00:10:47] Caroline: It felt like it.

[00:10:48] Jason: Yeah, it was more just like, it just felt like the thing to do. And I have no interest in consistently posting, but I think the thing that actually is kind of interesting to me about Instagram is as we chatted about towards the end of the year, where one of our predictions was like, these platforms are going to move away from followers mattering and they're going to move away more towards, like...

[00:11:07] Caroline: The individual...

[00:11:07] Jason: Good content is going to get views. 

[00:11:09] Caroline: It's already happening.

[00:11:10] Jason: Exactly, 100%. I don't know, it feels to me like it kind of like gives your content more of a chance if you are creative and original. And I think that there's like, something that's intriguing to me about that.

[00:11:22] Caroline: I can see that happening where you... It's like the little competitive, creative part of your brain has, like, been stoked a little bit. And I can just tell you're at a point in life where you're looking for, like a new little creative challenge. And so there's a part of you that's just like, I know I'm creative. I know I can approach these things with, like, a fresh perspective. And what did I tell you when you were posting your stupid photos with your stupid captions? I turned to you and I said, you're so funny. I just love you. Like, I genuinely. I'm with you 24/7. And yet I enjoy your content because your brain works so differently than every other person on the planet. And it's not. It's nothing groundbreaking, but it's just these little things.

[00:11:59] Jason: Hold on a second. Start that. Try that again.

[00:12:02] Caroline: It's really groundbreaking. And it's like. And it's just.

[00:12:05] Jason: Would you say it's like discovering the origin of an orange groundbreaking?

[00:12:09] Caroline: The orange orange-in.

[00:12:10] Jason: Anyway, I don't know if I'm gonna keep posting or not. I just, I thought it was fun to share.

[00:12:13] Caroline: You wanted to share the evolution of that.

[00:12:15] Jason: Yeah. Those of you who listened to this episode, I literally don't know if from this episode moving forward I am going to create anything, but I am intrigued. I will say that. And I have. The other problem for me is this is the thing I run in all the time, which is like, I just don't know what in the world I would want to post about. Like, that's the thing.

[00:12:31] Caroline: That. And that is definitely a very...

[00:12:33] Jason: It's like I don't want... 

[00:12:34] Caroline: You don't want to add to the noise. 

[00:12:35] Jason: And I don't just want to post like business platitudes. I don't want to just post like, you know, like random, like, action taking advice. I don't care about those anymore. 

[00:12:42] Caroline: What about like really, really extreme political rage inducing...?

[00:12:46] Jason: Yeah. That's great. You know what I actually thought of the other day that could be my content style if I was actually going to do this? Which is like...

[00:12:52] Caroline: I hesitate to ask. 

[00:12:53] Jason: Business and baking. So it's I'm literally baking a thing.

[00:12:56] Caroline: Wait, wait, when did we talk about this? Was...? Didn't we say like, rise?

[00:12:59] Jason: On the rise?

[00:13:00] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:13:00] Jason: Yeah, whatever, yeah.

[00:13:01] Caroline: There is a real... a real overlap.

[00:13:03] Jason: I was thinking about it, like, I could use that little camera, the tiny like whatever 360 camera that I like, literally hang on my chest.

[00:13:11] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:13:11] Jason: And then just have like my phone set up as like a wide shot and then just like flip back and forth between me, like actually making a thing with my hands and then like seeing me. But I don't know, we'll see.

[00:13:19] Caroline: Do you see how you're kind of into it?

[00:13:21] Jason: We'll see. I don't know. We'll see. All right, that's too much prambling. Let's get into the actual.

[00:13:26] Caroline: This is actually a meaty episode. We shouldn't have rambled so much. But we're just in the, in a prambly type of mood.

[00:13:32] Jason: Okay.

[00:13:33] Caroline: Let them know what we're talking about in this episode.

[00:13:35] Jason: Well, obviously know that we're talking about six roadblocks that a lot of beginner business owners, but also established business owners who feel stuck, run into and how to overcome them.

[00:13:44] Caroline: Yeah. And like, listen, the title of this, to me, I'm just gonna be honest, sounds a little generic, but it's really important, I think, because so often we're giving advice, we're giving tips, whatever. And it's like we're not addressing though. It's sometimes it's not just about knowing what to do. It's about, like, knowing what is holding you back from knowing what to do.

[00:14:03] Jason: Yeah.

[00:14:03] Caroline: Does that make sense? So, you know, I think business roadblocks is like such an overused phrase, but I still really wanted to do this episode because I know the feeling of being stuck when you're a beginner at anything. You just, you get so easily kind of paralyzed and in your own head. And Jason and I put together this six month, kind of kickstart roadmap that is a part of the six month coaching as a part of WAIM and as we were putting it together, pulling together 10 of our coaching sessions that we thought would be perfect for, like, if I was literally starting from scratch, here are the first 10 I would start with. We outlined like, okay, I would do X, Y and Z over the course of six months. But we were like, okay, but someone's not going to do that if they're at the starting gate and they just can't get going. So the more important thing is to address what are the things that are holding you back from each of...?

[00:14:55] Jason: The roadblocks.

[00:14:55] Caroline: Yeah. What are the things that are holding you back from each of the critical steps you need to take in order to get your kind of online brand off the ground? So that's we're going to touch on.

[00:15:03] Jason: Let's start with roadblock number one. And this is, I don't know where to start. So this.

[00:15:07] Caroline: I, I want to build a business. I do not know where to start.

[00:15:10] Jason: And, you know, this obviously happens because, A, you like, work a job right now and you're like, I cannot do this anymore. This is soul crushing to me. But it also happens for people who maybe have run a business and it has, like, run its course for them, and they're just like, I want to start over. Like, what, what do I do from here? You know, like, it...

[00:15:30] Caroline: It's like when you're at square one, you see that, like, everything is ahead of you and it feels so, like, almost information overload because you're like, well, how do I...? Which part of this do I bite off a little bit and begin? Where do I begin?

[00:15:43] Jason: And yeah, you definitely struggle with a lot of the mindset issues of fear of failure, imposter syndrome, for sure, waiting for permission to start. And I think one of the biggest problems at this space is just comparison traps.

[00:15:58] Caroline: And overthinking.

[00:15:59] Jason: You're always, you're in this mode of like, I know I want to get started, so I'm consuming a bunch of content, like, get motivation and get... And we've talked about this before, is like, it's just a form of procrastination.

[00:16:09] Caroline: Though, and the more you consume, this is the hardest part. The more you consume, you're convincing yourself that this is, like, getting you ready. You're doing research, you're... you're getting inspired. Like, all these things that you tell yourself. But the more you consume, the longer you will wait to begin. 

[00:16:25] Jason: Of course. And the more you set a bar for what you think you need before you take action. So it's like, okay, well, my idea has to be perfect. My plan has to be perfect. My... you know, all this stuff. And it's like, no, it just... You got to get started. And that's... that's really, like, the how to get past this first roadblock is to answer a couple of questions.

[00:16:42] Caroline: Yeah. And I think we don't have this written down here, but I also think maybe if you're like a true beginner and you're kind of like, just, you never saw yourself as an entrepreneur. You never knew that this was a possibility, but you're seeing friends around you or people that you know starting to build their own thing or their side project or whatever, and you're going, oh, maybe this is possible for me.

[00:16:59] Jason: Yeah.

[00:16:59] Caroline: But you're truly new to business. I think you hear the word business, and you don't really know what it means. Right. We talk about this a lot of times. If you don't have something to sell, you don't have a business. And so we'll talk about that in step two. But I just think it's important to acknowledge at this first foundation phase here of, like, what is...? What does it mean to start a business?

[00:17:20] Jason: Yeah.

[00:17:21] Caroline: And what it really means is you need to identify. If one day you're going to charge for something, you need to identify what is the value that you have in your skillset, in your experiences, in your interests, in your strengths. Like, what are the ingredients that you have that can be spun up into value that can solve a problem for another person? That is the core of I want to start a business. Like, what problem do I solve? And so we always start with this one exercise. So if you're like, I don't know where to start, the way to move past that is to go back to this one exercise. We call it the 4Q's. We've mentioned it many times, but it's because there's four key questions that you need to answer. Give them the questions, Jason.

[00:18:01] Jason: The questions are, who do you help? Why does your business exist? And why should someone choose you over your peers? What problem does your business solve? And how do you help them solve it?

[00:18:12] Caroline: And I don't want you to overthink these questions. I want you to write down, like, the first version answer to each of these questions. This is not looking for the perfect answer. This is not looking for... There is not a right answer to any of these questions. There is just any answer is an answer and is a business idea that you can start with.

[00:18:31] Jason: Yeah. And I will put these four questions in the show notes. Wherever you consume this podcast, you'll be able to find those because these are really like the critical questions that if you can't answer, you will stay stuck at roadblock number one for a long time. And so, yeah, I think these questions will help you find clarity, which is one of the first steps in getting a business going and getting past this first stage. And that comes from just taking action. So answer these questions to the best of your ability and then move forward. Don't stay stuck because it's like, oh, well, you know, I don't know if this problem that I'm solving, you know, is actually good. It's like, no, no, you can see examples of it already being solved. Yes, you're... you can solve that problem. Now move forward.

[00:19:12] Caroline: And that's what I would say is the key mindset shift that you need to make in order to kind of overcome this first roadblock is stop waiting around for clarity to strike you. You know, like, most people are walking around going, oh, just that, that one business idea, it's going to hit me.

[00:19:29] Jason: Or it's scrolling through a vertical feed of things. Be like, okay, I know I'm going to see something here that's going to give me the idea.

[00:19:35] Caroline: And it's... and that's not how it's going to work. It's going to be you carving out the time to sit down and sit with yourself, to look within for answers instead of outside for answers, and answer these questions and feel confident in at least your first version of the answers to these questions so that you can act your way to clarity instead of think your way to clarity.

[00:19:55] Jason: I wish there was a test in life that you had to pass to be able to start your own business. And that test was, are you willing to embrace experimentation?

[00:20:04] Caroline: Right.

[00:20:05] Jason: And if you answer no to that test...

[00:20:07] Caroline: That test does exist, because you cannot start a business without experimenting.

[00:20:11] Jason: But I just, I think a lot of people, and there are people listening to this who I know are guilty of this as well. You think you're just gonna basically go, home run, home run. Every swing of the bat in business, and it's just all gonna work. Oh, I'm gonna make the perfect lead magnet. Home run. Oh, I'm gonna start the perfect Instagram content strategy. Home run. It's just gonna work. Oh, I'm gonna nail my offer. And, like, who it's targeted to. Home run. And, like, everything along the way you think is gonna work out perfectly. And the first sign of it not going well, like, you, you create a lead magnet and you share it, and not a single person signs up.

[00:20:40] Caroline: Right.

[00:20:40] Jason: And then all of a sudden, like, it feels like your entire business crumbles down around you. As opposed to being like, hold on, I have an experimenter's mindset. I know this is part of the process. Let me figure out why this didn't work.

[00:20:50] Caroline: Great. That's one idea that didn't work. Yeah. I think this is a total probably other podcast conversation, but I think that part of why that is is I think the school system really sets us up to fail in this regard because we spend our whole, like, academic lives taking tests where there's right and wrong answers. And so you just are memorizing information and you're going like, oh, if I, I can just think my way to success, that's all, like, tests are is thinking your way to success. And all entrepreneurship is, is acting your way to success, experimenting your way to success. And so I'm saying that as, like, a light bulb moment for anyone like me who maybe excelled in, like, a more...

[00:21:28] Jason: Academic.

[00:21:29] Caroline: Academic environment and finds themselves a little bit out of their depth in an entrepreneurial environment. It's just going to require a shifting of your mindset. You can no longer think your way to the right answer. You have to experiment and fail your way to the right answer.

[00:21:43] Jason: Exactly. Okay, one final tip here on how to move past this is to focus on how tired you are of stalling.

[00:21:50] Caroline: I don't know if this resonates with anyone, but it... it is something that actually really got a fire under my butt to start my business way back when, or actually just to start my blog. I waited for a year to start my original blog, which morphed into my business.

[00:22:05] Jason: You weren't sure if Blogspot was going to be the right platform for you.

[00:22:07] Caroline: I did start on Blogspot. 

[00:22:09] Jason: I know.

[00:22:09] Caroline: But I waited a whole year and look back and I'm like, that was so silly. But I remember this day. I finally was like, I, I was just was having the realization that I was coming up on a year of... And I'm so embarrassed to admit this, but, like, half the reason I didn't start my blog is because I just couldn't think of the perfect name. And this is a great example of what I was just saying. Like, I wanted to think of the name that was going to bring me success instead of just, like, start with something and then evolve down the road. And I, I had this realization I was coming up on a year, and I was so just frustrated at the fact that I could have had a whole year of practicing posting and my writing and all of these things. I could have something to show for it, but instead, I had nothing. And that idea was so painful to me. The idea of another year going by with this just being a dream instead of a reality, that finally that pain was enough to make me, like, just take the leap. And, like, I know you've heard this quote before, but it's, you know, change doesn't really happen until the pain of change becomes less than the pain of staying the same. So it's really, and for me, that's what it was is like, finally, I was like, it is so painful. The idea of waiting another year. That is so much more painful than the idea of just starting this damn blog. And so for you, if you have been struggling to start, I think reminding yourself of that pain, of how frustrated you've been with yourself, of, like, just not diving into the deep end, and that might be the push that you need.

[00:23:32] Jason: Yeah. Okay. Your actionable steps here to get past roadblock number one, I don't know where to start. Do the 4Q's, and again, those will be listed in the show notes, so you can go through those to form your business idea. And the second thing is to work on the mindset shifts we've talked about. Decide that you are finally going to start this for real this time. And make sure you embrace an experimenter's mindset and know you're not going to hit a bunch of home runs. You have got to be open to things failing and not working out. 

[00:23:57] Caroline: Yeah. Perfect.

[00:23:58] Jason: All right. Roadblock number two. I don't know what to sell. This is the offer phase of starting a business, and it is something that people overcomplicate all the time in trying to come up with the craziest, most compelling, unique offer that no one's ever heard of before or that, like, feels like, so different instead of what's already been proven to sell and building a version of that that's unique to you.

[00:24:25] Caroline: Yes. And I think that some of this comes from, like, applying the sort of startup mentality to the online and let's just call it like info, info business space. You know, a lot of the businesses that we're talking about in our world that people start are digital product businesses. And a lot of time that is selling information, that is selling expertise, that is selling processes, et cetera. So info products. And, but the idea that, like, in the startup world, in the Shark Tank world, it's all about, like, the innovative product, the idea that nobody's come up with before, like disruption and all this stuff. Right. And so I think people see that and they... and these are the, like, unicorn companies that are kind of glorified and they apply that to kind of the infopreneur world and they think, oh, if I can just come up with that, like, unicorn idea in this world, not realizing that it's actually a detriment because when you are trying to market that type of business, you don't have the marketing dollars, the advertising power to create a new category. It's, it's such an uphill battle to have to like, communicate to people what it is and why it's different and, and... 

[00:25:34] Jason: As someone who has come up with a couple of those ideas...

[00:25:37] Caroline: You certainly have.

[00:25:37] Jason: It's an uphill battle to explain to someone your crazy, wacky, you know, marketing business idea.

[00:25:43] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:25:43] Jason: Whereas if you just sell Notion templates and they solve a very specific problem, that's really easy, especially for your core audience to understand. And I think one of the things that I've talked about on this podcast before, that I just want to reiterate here, is the difference between having hard skills and soft skills. So let's say you again are like a Notion expert. Like, you just know Notion in and out. You can make templates, you can tell people how to use it. That is a hard skill. So, like, you can easily monetize that skill. And being someone who knows how to use that and teach people to do that, your differentiator's there, as we'll talk about in, I don't know how to stand out in the next roadblock, that's in, like, more about, like, you as a person and like your experience and those types of things. But when it comes to soft skills, so I would say that's like business coaching or life coaching or art or these types of things. It is much more predicated on you have to exist in a space where people are already paying money, yes. But then you have to be very clear on how you stand out from those people.

[00:26:41] Caroline: Definitely.

[00:26:42] Jason: And so I think like, those are the things where people get really stuck in this area of trying to move forward and starting their own business. And then there's also just like the fear of pricing and self doubt. So it's like, what if no one buys my thing is the thought that keeps people paralyzed. And I think one of the things that you just have to be okay with as a person who's starting a business is the idea that someone might not buy.

[00:27:05] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:27:05] Jason: And that is going to happen and it is going to suck. It is going to not be fun.

[00:27:10] Caroline: It's really scary. But again, going back to that experimentation conversation, you do not know until you try.

[00:27:16] Jason: Yeah, exactly.

[00:27:17] Caroline: You don't have real world data until you put up that price tag and see if people will buy.

[00:27:20] Jason: And I'm going to make mention it at the end of this roadblock in an actionable step. But you can go and listen to Wayne Fick's interview that we did on this podcast, episode 217. Wayne's first thing that he sold was a Canva based sales page template. And it did not sell in the beginning. And it was a real like, oh, I can't be a business owner. Like, no one will ever buy from me. It's like, no, no one wants to buy this specific thing.

[00:27:45] Caroline: So let's pivot.

[00:27:46] Jason: Let's figure out something else. So a couple of the tips we want to give you for moving past this is you have to find something proven. 

[00:27:53] Caroline: And definitely at least when you're getting started.

[00:27:54] Jason: Yeah. Instead of inventing something unique, put a unique spin on something that people are already buying. And I really love the metaphor that Justin Jackson, our friend, has about surfing. And the very simplified version is if you're a surfer, you go where the waves already are. And it's not about going into a body of water and hoping that waves show up.

[00:28:12] Caroline: Flapping your arms.

[00:28:12] Jason: And just being like, well, I hope they show up here. It's about going, no, that is a place where people are surfing right now and I am going to go to that place. So for you, as a business owner who wants to start a business or wants to pivot or whatever it is you're doing, what is the thing that people are already selling that you can sell? Especially something that is getting more popular, getting more attention, that is something to definitely jump on as a, as a business idea.

[00:28:37] Caroline: And then the second thing I would say is to move past this. Um, you know, especially if a lot of this has to do with your fear and your uncertainty around if people are going to buy this thing, whatever the thing is that you've decided is your mechanism for delivering value, because you already answered the 4Q's in the first phase is validating your offer idea before you actually build it. So there's different ways that you can do this. But, I mean, it can start out as something as simple as polling your audience. It can be as simple as having DM conversations with your audience about what they'd be interested in. It can be something like, you know, sending a survey if you have an email list. And then of course, like the... the holy grail would be, you know, doing a beta version of it and actually putting it up for sale for, like, a lower price and having people put their money where their mouth is.

[00:29:25] Jason: We actually, like, looked back on our history as business owners and I think we have pre sold every single thing we've made.

[00:29:32] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:29:32] Jason: And because this is the best way to validate an idea and it is saying, like, hey, I'm going to make this course. It's going to be $300 on, you know, just launching. Let's just say that. But you can buy it for $80 as a huge discount. And I haven't made it yet, but you're just going to be one of the first people to go through it and you're going to get it at a steep discount.

[00:29:49] Caroline: And listen, it's just an ROI play. Like we... especially when you're a solopreneur or you're like a small, you know, duo or a team, you don't have the time to pour all months or, you know, weeks and months into an offer that people might not buy. Like, kind of, you know, mitigate your risk by making sure that you have customers upfront.

[00:30:10] Jason: Yeah. And I think the only caveat there is if you're making a product, like a version of a product that is already selling extremely well. Like, again, I'm just going to go to it as an example, but like, Notion templates a couple of years ago and like teaching people how to use Notion in, like the 2021 timeline. This was like a perfect business to get into because it was so, you know, hot and people were talking about it. So it's like that is something where I would say, like, yes, you could invest some time, but I would still pre sell your version of it to make sure that someone wants to buy it. And then the last thing is to simplify the decision. So if you're stuck, like we talked about with Wayne, pick an offer, test it for 90 days and then reevaluate. And so when we got to the end of that 90 days with Wayne, we looked back at what he had been selling, and we said, hey, this doesn't work. We got a pivot. That's okay. What do we learn? Let's move forward.

[00:30:58] Caroline: All right. Let's talk about the actionable steps for getting over roadblock number two. I don't know what to sell. We would recommend finding three digital products in your niche that you already established from phase one and something that people are already buying. And ask yourself, what do you think is missing from that? What is maybe a unique spin that you could put on it? What could make it easier, faster, or even more specific and really start with that as your first experiment?

[00:31:25] Jason: Yep. And then, as I mentioned, if you want to listen to us, have a discussion with Wayne, especially about how he pivoted his business after basically picking the wrong offer to start, I think that'll give you a lot of food for thought. That is episode 217 here on the Growing Steady pod.

[00:31:38] Caroline: My third tip, actually, before we move on, that I didn't write there, but I would say if you really are someone who truly, this is going to be your first digital product ever, and you're choosing between a few ideas, go with the one that you think is the least amount of time to create and spin up, because you're going to learn so much from that first experience. What I don't want you to do is spend six months building out the most amazing online course program that you've ever seen in your entire life, and it's your first product, and you've wasted all that time not even knowing if people are going to buy it.

[00:32:11] Jason: Yeah. Okay. Roadblock number three. You might be thinking, I don't know how to stand out.

[00:32:18] Caroline: That's a big one. I think, especially in, you know, we're recording this in 2025. I think, you know, the Internet has only gotten noisier and noisier with each passing year. That's not going to change. And so the question that has always been the question for businesses since the beginning of time, how do I stand out from the competition? Has become just even harder to answer.

[00:32:38] Jason: Yeah. And I think a common misstep here is, you know, you're kind of in the branding phase of your business. Right. And everyone gets really fixated on a logo and colors and a beautiful website and all the visual things. But what branding is really about is the emotion and connection. Like, they're, you know, obviously not trying to compare our small online business brands to something like Nike. But it's like Nike makes you feel something. Every time you see one of their commercials, every time you see one of their shoeboxes, every time you see their check mark logo, it's like, yeah, I should just get out and do it. You know, I should. And it is that feeling that you can resonate with. And we're not saying that you're going to create the next Nike. We have not tried to create the next Nike. What it's about is just trying to figure out a way that you don't blend in with everybody else's messaging so that you seem super generic.

[00:33:23] Caroline: Yeah. And I think we've talked about this a lot recently, especially with our WAIMers inside of our coaching program. But it is more important than ever to be these three things, specific, authentic, and niche. So whatever your broad industry is trying to carve out that vertical or that vertical within the vertical, you know, that category, that can be a lot more specific. Targeting a very specific person at a very specific moment in their journey and then making sure that that matches up with what you're you authentically bring to the table as well because people can feel that. And it's never been honestly a better time to be yourself on the Internet. I feel like, you know, we've talked about TikTok has created this environment where people are much more accepting of the rawness and the realness and people's quirks and what makes you weird. I think it's cool to be weird right now. So whatever... 

[00:34:17] Jason: Some might say, you should Own Your Weird. 

[00:34:19] Caroline: Someone should say..

[00:34:20] Jason: That's my second book. It's the title of my second book.

[00:34:22] Caroline: Is Own Your Weird. So embrace that and find out, like, look for those little nuggets of thread that connect your story, that connect your different interests and try to bring that into your brand.

[00:34:35] Jason: I would say the most important thing is we talk about it here. How to move past the idea of I don't know how to stand out is 1000% less time working on your logo and your colors and your website and 1000% more time just figuring out what makes you unique. So find whatever that unique angle is for you. Your thing, if you will. So is that your humor? Is it your rebelliousness? Is it the deep storytelling that you love? Is there some mystical element that you like to tie into things? Like, we all buy from people because there's something about them that resonates with us. And so I think like, you know, we know this from our Wandering Aimfully members because we asked them in surveys and, and it is, you know, some of our own assumptions that we test. But, you know, why do you buy Wandering Aimfully? And it's because they say, well, because you're not boring. Like, you make it fun, you make it enjoyable. You know, you, you don't talk in like this kind of like LinkedIn jargon for business, which is fine. There's a place for that. And if you want to be there, that's...

[00:35:27] Caroline: Then be authentically that. 

[00:35:28] Jason: By all means, do it. But you have to find what makes you stand out. And that's the thing you should spend the most time on to get past this roadblock.

[00:35:36] Caroline: I think also coming up with kind of like your one phrase test of how someone can describe your business in one clear, unique sentence. And, you know, we've used this metaphor before, but if you think of branding like you are, every time you communicate about your brand, you're pressing down like a rubber stamp. And if you press it down once and it's kind of like this, like, faint impression, and then the next time you say what you do, you change it up just ever so slightly. So you're kind of pressing that rubber stamp in like a different location now you're kind of muddying up the impression. Again, you communicate slightly differently about what you do in a different place.

[00:36:14] Jason: And just to give a real practical example to this, it's like, let's say you're a Figma designer who is selling a course about being, you know, upleveling your figma. But you're like, hey... 

[00:36:23] Caroline: Leveling your Figma.

[00:36:24] Jason: Upleveling your Figma. Yeah. But you, you start to say, like, okay, this is my course on, like, how to do UX. And then you talk about, over here, you're like, okay, I'm creating a program on UI mastering.

[00:36:34] Caroline: Right.

[00:36:34] Jason: And you over here, you're like, okay, I'm a Figma expert who helps people and it's like....

[00:36:38] Caroline: Uplevel your design.

[00:36:39] Jason: All of a sudden you have like these. Yes, you do all those things, but the stamp is misaligned.

[00:36:43] Caroline: Exactly. And so the visual that you can see is like, now I have this, like, very muddied impression that is in multiple locations. I can't even read what the stamp says. Now contrast that with I'm going to push down my stamp in the same place every time. And over and over, that impression is going to get, you know, more contrast, more vibrant. I'm going to be able to read that stamp, like, so easily. And that's what you need to imagine you're doing in the minds of your customers. Every time you say your little one phrase test describing your brand, this is very, very important. In the beginning, when you've been in business for 10 years like we have, we can talk about being unboring, we can talk about being, you know, the different things that we do for business. We can talk about onboarding, coaching, all these different things. You have more room to play when you have established yourself as a brand online. When you were in that very beginning. I want you to sound...

[00:37:33] Jason: Like a robot.

[00:37:33] Caroline: A little bit like a robot in the beginning.

[00:37:35] Jason: You mentioned this in a coaching session we did recently. But Vivian Tu, I think is her last name. She is the one for anybody who's been on TikTok or Instagram in the past couple years. You have heard her say, I'm Vivian, you're Wall Street girly. 

[00:37:46] Caroline: You're rich BFF and your favorite Wall Street girly. I can almost recite it because I've seen so many videos with it. 

[00:37:51] Jason: And that it sounds silly, but that's exactly what we're talking about. And so being more specific, this turns you into a magnet, not a net. So you're going to attract the right people, not just hoping to catch a couple of people as they stumble across you and like the random headline that you put in this place or this place attracts them. It's like, no, you are known for a thing and that is something that people resonate with and they have an emotional connection to to solve that problem.

[00:38:12] Caroline: Yeah. And then the last way that you move past this is you stop redesigning your website every six months. And this might be somewhere you might actually be like stuck at phase one because you skipped ahead and you just have been trying to like tweak your website for months or years even.

[00:38:28] Jason: Yeah.

[00:38:28] Caroline: This is a place, believe me, we have seen so many beginner business over owners over the years. This is one of the number one like traps that people fall into is they convince themselves that they are quote, unquote, working on their business and all they're doing is just like tweaking their Squarespace design for like three years.

[00:38:47] Jason: Yeah. And it's like slightly shuffling the messaging, slightly changing the colors and all stuff. And it's like, that's a trap. That's a place where you hide because you're afraid to do the difficult work of figuring out how you stand out, how your business actually solves a problem for people, et cetera, et cetera. Now your action step here, it's actually very simple and I think this is a very helpful exercise that not enough people do, especially at this stage when you go, I don't know how to stand out. Here's your practical exercise. Find five competitors to what you sell. So, like, again, you sell Notion templates. Find five people who sell exactly the type of Notion templates that you offer. What are all the things that are the same about those five? Then where are the areas that you can be unique? Where are the areas that you can stand out? What are the things that you can offer that just add a subtle difference? It doesn't have to be groundbreaking, but it does have to be like, oh, if I showed someone this, it would stand out, and this would be helpful to someone. So that's your exercise, is to find a couple of competitors, write down all the similarities, and then identify some differences where you can stand out from those similarities. Okay, roadblock number four.

[00:39:51] Caroline: Roadblock number four.

[00:39:52] Jason: Number floor. Let's hit the floor.

[00:39:53] Caroline: Roadblock number four is, I don't know how to grow an audience.

[00:39:58] Jason: Yes.

[00:39:58] Caroline: And first of all, I would say to this person who is stuck at that spot, I would say congrats on knowing that you need to grow an audience, because that is something that is going to be absolutely necessary for you to make money online is having a group of people that are paying attention to what you're doing. That is arguably harder than ever, because, you know, people's attentions are very fragmented, and all of these algorithms are moving away from followers and more towards individual pieces of content. But that does not mean that it's impossible. And you still need to achieve whether those people are more transient than they used to be or not. You still need to achieve, oh, I have the attention of this group of people.

[00:40:37] Jason: Yeah. And this happens to a lot of people, and it happened to us early on, too, is you try and grow on too many platforms at once and it leads you to burnout. So you're like, okay, I know I should be on TikTok, so I'm gonna do that. And then I could probably just repost that to Instagram. That'd be fine. And then, oh, I should probably do short form on YouTube, because that's kind of the same thing. So I'll do that. Oh, you know, I think I want a podcast. I should do that. I know I need to start an email newsletter because all these people on social, I got to send them somewhere. And all of a sudden your spread so thin that you can't do any of it.

[00:41:04] Caroline: And listen, I think that this comes from a good place, which is...

[00:41:08] Jason: Experimentation.

[00:41:09] Caroline: Experimentation. And you want to know, like, what type of content do I like to create? What platform do I like best? I think there's a level of experimentation that is healthy in trying to find the channel that kind of matches your skill set the best. But Jason's right. When it comes from a place of, oh, I just, I need to be all these places, because that's what is going to make my business legit. You are very quickly going to burn yourself out and run the risk of wasting your time, to be frank.

[00:41:35] Jason: Yeah. And so the other thing that this can be a struggle with as well is let's say you actually pick a platform and you're posting consistently, but it's like, well, nothing's really happening. And part of that is because you don't have a way to kind of capture the attention of those people and keep them engaged. And so this is where we really focus on a simple strategy of a lead magnet that solves a problem that leads to being on an email list. And I know we sound like the millennial slash boomers that we are when it comes to having an email list, but when all the algorithms change and everyone starts freaking out that their posts go from, oh, 10% of my followers see my stuff, to now 1% of my followers see my stuff, that doesn't happen in email. And the last big shift that happened in email, sure there was some adjustment, but it was nothing like happens in social media algorithms. So the real problem here is you're not growing an audience because you're just leaving people's attention in an app where their attention is constantly being dragged all around in different places and in 10 second increments. And you need to be able to get them over to an email list where you can hold their attention on a more consistent basis.

[00:42:38] Caroline: And listen, I will be the first to admit that when on Instagram, when I first started seeing that first wave of, like, comment this, to get this or whatever, I was the first to roll my eyes and be like, oh, you guys all sound like robots. Now I would say the truth is it just is a smart strategy to try to with all of this content that you're constantly creating, especially now that it's really on the individual piece of content. People can be coming in and out of your audience at any given moment. It's not about kind of broadcasting to a captive group of followers anymore. I think it's more important than ever to have a call to action on your content and to say, hey, if you're interested in this, raise your hand and to try to get them to a place that is a little bit more captive, being an email list. I don't roll my eyes to those people anymore. I mean it's like, yeah, you know, to a degree but... 

[00:43:26] Jason: Also feel free to comment on this episode RECIPE if you want to get my cinnamon roll recipe. That's just a one hour recipe.

[00:43:31] Caroline: That's your lead magnet.

[00:43:32] Jason: That's my lead magnet. All right, so how do you move past this page... this phase of this roadblock, if you will. I don't know how to grow an audience. So the first thing we want you to do is just pick one discovery channel. So that's YouTube, TikTok, Instagram. But it needs to be something that has discover... a podcast channel because... 

[00:43:50] Caroline: Do not pick a podcast.

[00:43:50] Jason: You have no discovery in it. You can't pick... Really, you can't pick like an email newsletter because there is no built in discovery unless you're going with like Substack or Beehive. But even then we would say at the beginning you have to pair it with a social media platform to be able to have people find you. And then you need to go in on, go all in on this platform for six months. And I know that sounds scary and I know that sounds like a lot, but the first couple of months it's going to be like throwing spaghetti at the wall until you find something that maybe you actually like the format and you like the style and you like your own voice because that can be really hard to get over.

[00:44:24] Caroline: And you get over the fear of posting, you just start to get more comfortable with creating content. You get over the feeling of being cringy. Like that's all what needs to happen in the first six months.

[00:44:34] Jason: Yeah. And then you're going to want to create an easy lead magnet. So you, you want to focus on something that people already want. So not something you make up in your brain. You think people need and kind of our goal these days because I think lead magnets have become so prevalent over the past eight years. You have to have something that solves a problem for someone within 30 minutes or less. So whatever your lead magnet is, it needs to be very focused on your niche and the thing that you're doing. And it needs to solve that problem quickly for someone.

[00:45:02] Caroline: Yeah, you want that first quick win where someone has an aha moment and they're like, oh, this just made my life easier. That's how you are going to build that deeper relationship because people are going to be like their time is so limited now, their attention is so limited now. They're going to feel like, wow, this person really brought me value. 

[00:45:19] Jason: Exactly. And they're going to go. Yeah. They're going to be like, oh, wow, this is awesome. I want more.

[00:45:23] Caroline: Exactly.

[00:45:23] Jason: As opposed to being like, wow, you just put a lot of homework on my plate and like, I don't want to do this and now I don't want anything from you.

[00:45:29] Caroline: Definitely.

[00:45:29] Jason: All right, the last tip here to move past the I don't know how to grow an audience phase is to use the 333 growth method. So this is three posts per week, three calls to action, three engagement moves, commenting, DMing, or sharing.

[00:45:42] Caroline: Yeah. And it's just like a simple little kind of framework that you can use because I guarantee part of what is keeping you stuck of not posting on some of these platforms or saying, I don't know how to grow an audience is I don't have a plan. And there's people out here telling you the plan every day. It's like, choose something simple. Give yourself a realistic number of posts you can achieve. Of course there are going to be people out there being like, the more you post, the more chance you have to grow. Okay, that's true. But if you set yourself up for trying to post five times a day, you're going to burn out really quickly.

[00:46:11] Jason: Exactly. All right. Your action step for roadblock number four is defining a quick win that your audience wants related to your offer. Turn this into like a 1 page PDF lead magnet offer for free. Just remember, this thing needs to solve a problem for someone and it needs to happen very quickly. So figure that out. And if you have trouble, like, this is a perfect place to use like ChatGPT or something like that. If you need to brainstorm ideas like this is, these are the perfect tools these days to help you overcome the roadblocks within the roadblocks.

[00:46:40] Caroline: Yeah. And so moving on now to roadblock number five. This is related to the last one. If you're like, I don't know how to grow an audience. Now you're like, okay, I need to find my discovery platform. I need to have a lead magnet. Great. But now you're like, I don't know what to post.

[00:46:53] Jason: I've picked my platform, but what do I, what do I do?

[00:46:56] Caroline: What do I do?

[00:46:57] Jason: And we totally agree. Like, content feels extremely overwhelming and you don't know what to post and maybe you try and post everywhere all at once. And this is a very normal thing. And I think it's even a thing that we go through in phases as business owners. But part of what happens here is you avoid posting anything because you just don't think you're posting the right thing.

[00:47:17] Caroline: Well, and I see too many people who you can just tell they're posting just to post. Like they're really not thinking about each post piece of content having a purpose, telling a story, delivering value. Like they're really, you can tell, just kind of like going through the motions, acting like, okay, well, basically my Instagram page is just like a billboard. And if I want to keep space on this billboard, I just have to post every day and hope and cross my fingers. And it's like that era of social media is gone.

[00:47:46] Jason: Yeah. And this is where I think, you know, you really discovered this when we came up with this coaching session last year of this kind of like foundational content shift of you either are creating find content or nurture content. And you look through all of our content and you're like, every single bit of it is nurture content. So if you want to quickly define this for people and then we can talk more about it.

[00:48:05] Caroline: Right. So your find content is content that is specifically directed towards people who are discovering you for the first time. It is more search optimized. And I'm saying that even not from like a blogging and SEO perspective, I'm saying that from like a social media networks. Now, all of these social media apps have search features that are looking for keywords, they're even looking for hashtags, and they're looking for similar type content. And they're kind of scanning your content with AI to see what niche it falls into. And so these are things where you are trying to identify who is the person I'm trying to target. What are the questions they're asking? How can I deliver value that answers those questions? That is content that is designed for people to find you. That's your find content. Then you have content that's your nurture content. That is content specifically designed for people who are sort of already in your orbit. They know you exist. It doesn't necessarily have to be answering a question or educating someone on a topic who's new to you. It could be more personality driven, it could be more brand driven, it could be telling more about your own personal story. That's not something anyone's going to be searching for for, but it's something that is going to nurture and deepen the trust with the relationship that you're building with someone who's kind of already in your orbit. 

[00:49:18] Jason: Yeah.

[00:49:19] Caroline: That's your nurture content.

[00:49:20] Jason: Yeah. So when you start to think about the content that you're creating, you know, you're gonna second guess yourself and you're gonna think, is this valuable enough? Will people even care? And before you count yourself out, start posting the content.

[00:49:31] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:49:32] Jason: Like, let people's actions show you if they're viewing the content, if they're not viewing the content, if they're sharing the content, they're saving the content. Like, these are things that you won't know until you hit publish. But don't, like, remove the chance of it doing well by not even publishing the content.

[00:49:46] Caroline: Yeah. And going back to the question at hand, I don't know what to post. How to move past that is just start with your audience's biggest questions. And this is why going back to why the foundation begins with you answering, who am I trying to help? You need to know who that person is so you can ask yourself, what's the problem that I'm trying to solve for them? And what are the questions around that problem? And so that is going to be like a great resource for you. And I think also something that I've really been trying to embrace in the past few years is now with social media moving at the pace that it is, don't forget that you can basically be answering the same question and come at it from 10 different angles. Don't be afraid to do that. Like, if I'm answering the question of, let's just use something very generic like, how do I grow my business? I could come at it from the perspective of like, okay, tips to grow your business. I could come at it from the perspective of, here's a case study of someone who grew their business. I could come at it from the perspective of, here are the biggest roadblocks to growing your business. Here are the biggest mistakes I've seen people make in trying to grow their business. Here are the lessons that I wish I knew sooner when I was growing my business. There are so many different, like, hooks and angles in that one idea. And so I really just, I encourage anyone listening to this. I don't know what to post my content about. Take one question that you're trying to answer and ask yourself, what are five to 10 different ways that I can communicate the answer to that question?

[00:51:04] Jason: Yeah, exactly. Okay. Your action steps here are to write down five common questions that your audience has. These will become your first five pieces of content. And if you want the coaching session that we did for our WAIM members all about creating these five foundational pieces of content using the Find and Nurture framework, send us an email, hello@wanderingaimfully.com, and say you want that coaching session and we will give you the link. You can watch the entire thing and get all the helpful actionable tips about creating fine and nurture content.

[00:51:35] Caroline: You could even include RECIPE in the email. You would get the recipe and you would get the coaching session. That's the two-fer.

[00:51:42] Jason: I want to say trifecta because it sounds better, but it's just two things. Okay. Roadblock number six. This is the last one folks. We were at the final stretch here and it's kind of the last thing that you have to do as a business owner. And it's the last roadblock you got to get over, which is the I'm terrified to launch feeling.

[00:51:57] Caroline: And if you're listening to this and you've heard our show before, you know we love the idea of launching a digital product. We love open and closed launches. Other people are out here telling you how to do, you know, sell things evergreen, that's great for them. For us, nothing has worked as well as launching. And this is kind of like your final boss of your little six month kickstart here of what you're trying to achieve. You have set your foundation, you've decided what your offer is, you've started to create content, you're starting to amass a little bit of an audience. But you're not a business until you try to sell something. Right. So you're going to launch your first digital product to your small audience, no matter how small it is. And you have to realize that you gotta get that first one under your belt.

[00:52:37] Jason: Yeah. And you're, you're gonna overcomplicate it and you're gonna stress yourself out and you're gonna worry that no one's going to buy and you're gonna have a ton of self doubt. And all of these things are things that can be avoided by doing a couple simple things, one of which is just giving yourself more time.

[00:52:52] Caroline: Always.

[00:52:53] Jason: And we, we, we put out a survey when we launched the Calm Launch Formula course last year and the number one result for how much time did you prepare for this launch was two to three weeks. My goodness. You could not stress yourself out more than only giving yourself two to three weeks. Give yourself at least a month. But in, in Calm Launch Formula, we talk about three to six months because every launch we do now is almost stress free. And it's because we have so much more time that we put ahead of a launch. And this is something... 

[00:53:24] Caroline: By the way, that's so important because almost every launch we've had probably the past three years, something unexpected has happened. In the lead up, it has been a family member getting sick, it has been one of us getting sick. It has been a weird technical glitch, it has been a world event. And so we have, thankfully, because we've extended our timeline, we have not felt the stress of that whatsoever because there's like this buffer room with every launch.

[00:53:50] Jason: You have this room to move and I think that you're just getting started in this and you're worried that no one is going to buy and you have these self doubts and again, this is all part of it. You may do a launch and no one buys and that really sucks. We call it a floppy launch around here. But you know what, there's a lot to learn from that because then you can follow up with the people who are on your email list and you can say, hey, why didn't you buy? And you can find out, oh, maybe the price didn't match what they thought they were getting. Maybe it's just a really bad time for them. Maybe they're an audience of people who don't actually buy things, they only all sign up for free things. And you find out that you've actually built the wrong audience and then you have to pivot your lead magnet strategy and like how you're attracting people.

[00:54:28] Caroline: Regardless of how many sales that first digital product launch gets, I want you to think to yourself, the success metric is actually not sales for that first launch. The success metric is I did my first launch.

[00:54:40] Jason: Doing the launch. Yeah.

[00:54:41] Caroline: Like I have gone from 0 to 1. I am now in a different league than I was before. I have done something, I have tried something. I am like in the arena now. Like I said, this is like that first launch is like your final boss to like get into the arena.

[00:54:55] Jason: Yeah.

[00:54:56] Caroline: Now you're an entrepreneur, now you're experimenting, now you're trying stuff.

[00:54:59] Jason: I think the other thing, and especially this comes from all of my hands on support work with people in Teachery who are building courses and it's the first time they've ever built a course and they're ever launching a course is they just overthink everything. Like they are not even overthink, they overcomplicate. Like they add too much stuff. So like, okay, I need a countdown timer and I have a webinar that goes to like this thing and I'm doing this slick sales funnel through this software and I have all this stuff and I'm like, first of all, how many people do you have on your list, like how many people is going to. Oh, it's like 25. What in the world are you doing this like crazy in depth...? Just literally send an email a day for seven days. Like just make this simple for yourself and like do a discounted price to start and like let's just see if people buy this thing. And so yeah, I think moving past this final roadblock, roadblock, there are two important things that we want to talk about and one is reframing your goal. So like Caroline just said, it's not about a ton of sales, it's just about doing the launch and then gaining insights from that launch. So what did you learn? What worked, what didn't work, what can you change for next time? What did people, customers actually say to you after the launch and they didn't buy? And the second thing is just to follow a formula. So whether it's our Calm Launch Formula that we talk about within Wandering Aimfully Unlimited or six month coaching or just like picking someone who you really like and like love the way that they do business online, just follow that formula. Stop trying to like, like aggregate all the formulas into one massive, gigantic formula that's just too much. 

[00:56:23] Caroline: Start simple and just start with something. And so you know, the final actionable step here to move past Roadblock 6 is to decide on what your kind of minimum viable launch looks like, which is the simplest, lowest stress way that you can invite people to buy your offer and then learn from those insights on the back end.

[00:56:42] Jason: Yeah. All right. Those are six roadblocks that we have helped go through here. I don't know where to start. I don't know what to sell, I don't know how to stand out, I don't know how to grow an audience. I don't know what to post and I'm terrified to launch. If you want more help with these, we do have a six month coaching program you can find in the link below. It's wanderingaimfully.com/6-months. Link's in the show notes so you don't have to remember that URL. You can check that out if you want a step by step process to go through all of those things, there are 10 coaching sessions that we walk you through. If you want a ton of help, a ton of actionable items, very specific advice to move you through that and to help get your next business off the ground and going with a lot less overwhelm and a lot less stress.

[00:57:23] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:57:24] Jason: All right, that's it. Now it's time to go eat a yellow and a green together.

[00:57:29] Caroline: Not orange.

[00:57:30] Jason: Not an orange. Okay, that's it, everybody. Thanks for listening.

[00:57:33] Caroline: Bye.