224 - We're back from 5 weeks of travel in the U.S....

[00:00:00] Caroline: Welcome to Growing Steady. The show where we help online creators like you build a calm business, one that's predictable, profitable and peaceful. We are your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an Un-boring Business Coaching program, and Teachery, an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well-being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.

[00:00:29] Jason: All right, cinnamon rollers, that's you. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the podcast. Here we are. We last recorded an episode...

[00:00:43] Caroline: How many years ago?

[00:00:44] Jason: Seven years ago.

[00:00:46] Caroline: Probably seven and a half.

[00:00:46] Jason: It was a different time.

[00:00:48] Caroline: Boy, was it?

[00:00:49] Jason: It was a different time.

[00:00:50] Caroline: It was a hopeful time.

[00:00:51] Jason: It was...

[00:00:51] Caroline: Now we're living in the dark times again.

[00:00:53] Jason: Oh, boy. Let's not have this be a place where...

[00:00:55] Caroline: No, it's not.

[00:00:55] Jason: ...everybody has to think about the negative feelings that they're all thinking about.

[00:00:57] Caroline: No. We're going to put that to the side for a moment.

[00:01:00] Jason: We're going to just distract you.

[00:01:00] Caroline: And we're going to hop on here.

[00:01:01] Jason: Just going to distract you.

[00:01:03] Caroline: We're going to try to distract you.

[00:01:03] Jason: Yeah.

[00:01:03] Caroline: We're going to have some LOLs.

[00:01:04] Jason: Right. This whole episode is kind of a pramble episode, so...

[00:01:07] Caroline: Speaking of LOL, do you know that... I mean, this goes with everything, but LOL...

[00:01:13] Jason: LOL stands for laugh out loud?

[00:01:13] Caroline: It does stand for laugh out loud. Do you know that Gen Z makes fun of people who use LOL, which is me? I am.

[00:01:18] Jason: Here's the thing.

[00:01:18] Caroline: It's me.

[00:01:19] Jason: I just need... Again, I believe we have one Gen Z listener...

[00:01:23] Caroline: Right.

[00:01:23] Jason: ...as we've found. I don't care...

[00:01:24] Caroline: Email us if you think you're our Gen Z listener.

[00:01:26] Jason: I don't care.

[00:01:28] Caroline: No, I know.

[00:01:28] Jason: Let alone what people my age think of me.

[00:01:31] Caroline: I know.

[00:01:31] Jason: And then younger people.

[00:01:32] Caroline: No. Neither do I. I just...

[00:01:33] Jason: I'm not cool. It's fine.

[00:01:34] Caroline: I don't. I'm going to continue to do me. Except for my socks. I did...

[00:01:38] Jason: You are Gen Z socks.

[00:01:39] Caroline: I do like the socks, but I just think it's so funny...

[00:01:44] Jason: Yeah.

[00:01:44] Caroline: ...that we are at the stage now where... And the changing the guard will happen.

[00:01:50] Jason: Yeah.

[00:01:50] Caroline: And I can't wait for Gen Z to experience it of when...

[00:01:53] Jason: Yeah.

[00:01:53] Caroline: ...Gen Alpha starts...

[00:01:54] Jason: Exactly.

[00:01:55] Caroline: ...dunking on them.

[00:01:55] Jason: But it is just so funny when you take a step back.

[00:01:59] Caroline: I'm like, why you need to take your... Don't take my LOL.

[00:02:00] Jason: Also, I was telling you I saw... Girls, you have to wear your sunglasses like one inch down your nose.

[00:02:05] Caroline: Yes.

[00:02:06] Jason: And I just objectively was like, this is hilarious...

[00:02:08] Caroline: Hilarious.

[00:02:09] Jason: ...what we are doing.

[00:02:10] Caroline: I know.

[00:02:11] Jason: Just more important things in the world to focus on.

[00:02:15] Caroline: 100%.

[00:02:15] Jason: Anyway, we are back here behind the recording saddle, and we have six episodes you wrote here until the end of 2025.

[00:02:22] Caroline: We did.

[00:02:23] Jason: So everyone's going to get about six hours of us or less, and that's all you get for the rest of 2024.

[00:02:29] Caroline: So savor it.

[00:02:30] Jason: Soak it in.

[00:02:31] Caroline: Just taste it. What?

[00:02:32] Jason: Soak it in.

[00:02:33] Caroline: I don't know they're like that.

[00:02:33] Jason: Soak us in. Wear us like a blanket and just, we're going to cover you up. Yeah. So that's what's going on. And again, this is a recap episode because we've been gone for six weeks on the podcast, if not a little bit more.

[00:02:46] Caroline: Where have we been? What have we been doing?

[00:02:47] Jason: We're doing a lot of things.

[00:02:48] Caroline: What's the saga then?

[00:02:48] Jason: We will catch, but first before that, we got to catch people up on the last episode because we dropped a little bit of a big thing there.

[00:02:57] Caroline: Yeah. We did a little mic drop where we were like, and this is all the things that have been happening in our life for six months. Bye. We won't see you for a while, which honestly is kind of mean, but also was good for us because that type of level of vulnerability... I'm a very vulnerable person. I'm comfortable with sharing the real. But even that level was like, I felt like I needed to slowly tiptoe away from the microphone and just be like, I don't know what people are going to say about this, which, of course, all of you sent emails in. And we shared it on our newsletter as well, and just sent the kindest, most wonderful, lovely...

[00:03:33] Jason: Supportive.

[00:03:33] Caroline: ...supportive messages that I can tell you put time into. Some of you shared your personal stories with us, and I'm slowly working my way through those replies because I wanted to reply to every person. But just know that whether you send a reply or not, it is so appreciated. It brings me so much gratitude and so much solidarity. This is the whole reason we wanted to share that. And in case you're like, what's going on? Our last episode, we shared that we have been on a bit of a fertility journey for the past six months, and...

[00:04:02] Jason: I just, I can't get pregnant. I'm trying so hard.

[00:04:05] Caroline: Yeah. We're trying to get Jason pregnant so hard.

[00:04:06] Jason: I watched the movie Junior...

[00:04:08] Caroline: And we're like...

[00:04:09] Jason: And I'm like, okay.

[00:04:10] Caroline: And you're like, "Oh, it doesn't really feel like you have a strong grip on the science." And it's like, "Do we need to?"

[00:04:14] Jason: But I watched the movie Junior.

[00:04:16] Caroline: Yeah, we watched Junior, and we were like, that's how it happens.

[00:04:18] Jason: Yeah.

[00:04:18] Caroline: Yeah. So we're going to continue to try that and see how that goes. But we're still in the midst of it all. And my purpose in sharing that was not only just to contribute to the breaking of that stigma that I hope continues to happen, but also it can just be very isolating. And it felt so such a relief to just share it. And I think I'm going to start sharing it more because what I'm finding out is also that when you're going through something like that, people don't want to ask...

[00:04:47] Jason: Yeah.

[00:04:48] Caroline: ...because they're afraid that it's something you don't want to think about, or they don't know what to say or whatever. And I experienced this when we went back to the States and we saw our families and we saw our friends, and this is no shade to any of those people, but I desperately wanted to talk about it, but nobody was really asking me that much about it. And I think it was because they didn't want to upset me or they...

[00:05:07] Jason: You also forgot when we left, you didn't pack your "Ask me about my fertility journey" shirt.

[00:05:12] Caroline: When I tell you I should have made a shirt that said, "I'm happy to talk about my fertility journey."

[00:05:17] Jason: Yeah.

[00:05:17] Caroline: I should have worn that shirt.

[00:05:18] Jason: Yeah.

[00:05:19] Caroline: And in hindsight, I would have just said that. So this is advice to anyone who's going through something, it doesn't have to be a fertility journey, but if there's something that is difficult in your life, and you are the type of person who you don't just want to bring it up because nobody wants to be that person who's like, "Let's talk about me for a little bit", but you're starting to feel isolated in that challenge. I highly recommend, and my advice is to, whenever you feel like it's an appropriate moment, say, "Hey, just so you guys know..." like you're at a table of your friends or whatever, like, "...I don't want you to be afraid to ask me things. Like, I want to talk about it. It makes me feel better to talk about it." If that's your truth, which it is in my case, just put that out there...

[00:05:58] Jason: Yeah.

[00:05:58] Caroline: ...so people know when you give them the green light to... Like in my case, I'm like, ask me anything. You can't offend me. You can't...

[00:06:04] Jason: Yeah. And I think we just... This is not to make you feel any sort of way...

[00:06:08] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:06:08] Jason: ...but when we were back in the States for five weeks and we were seeing family, we were seeing friends, and I could tell you we're a little bit bummed that people weren't asking you for updates, and...

[00:06:17] Caroline: It wasn't bummed. I just want to be clear. It's not like I'm sitting here being like, can we talk about me for a second? It's not bummed. It's a feeling of, hey, I just saw all these people that I'm really close to, and I feel separated because I feel like I'm going through the thing that is the most present for me in my life right now. And because I didn't get a chance to let people in on that, I feel separate from other people.

[00:06:41] Jason: Exactly. And so the point that I wanted to share is, and this is what you were just saying, but I'm just bringing it up from a different perspective, is that... And this is what we talked about is like, people are not going to ask about these really heavy things, unless you give them the green light to do it. And so...

[00:06:55] Caroline: Exactly. Which is my point. Yeah.

[00:06:57] Jason: It may be worth sending the text before you are around your group of friends or whatever and being like, hey guys, all of you know that I've been going through this. Like, I'm totally open to talk about it. Like, it would actually make me feel better if you had any questions if we wanted to talk about. Like, you don't have to feel like you do, but I think that would have opened up the doors for a lot of different situations that we were in for people to feel comfortable to ask, because from their perspective, which is actually the perspective that I live in a lot, which is I don't know what to ask.

[00:07:22] Caroline: Exactly.

[00:07:23] Jason: So I don't know where the green light exists. I don't know if I'm at a yellow light situation. Do I speed up? Do I slow down? Where do I go? What do I do?

[00:07:29] Caroline: You have a lot of trouble with the lights.

[00:07:30] Jason: Yeah. We, as we know this, I'm the accelerator, you're the brakes. Like I see a yellow light, you got to put the pedal to the metal. You know what I mean?

[00:07:38] Caroline: I wish you would.

[00:07:39] Jason: All right. So as an update, though...

[00:07:41] Caroline: Oh, yeah.

[00:07:41] Jason: ...so the last episode where we left off, we had shared, and we're not going to go into detail because I think we don't want it to be triggering for anybody. So feel free to listen to that episode if you want to hear the full fertility journey. But we did learn some things after that episode was recorded that are explaining a couple of reasonings why our journey has been tough.

[00:08:01] Caroline: Yes. And I'm not going to go too far into detail here because it's like medical stuff and science stuff. But I told Jason I'm having this little itch to start sharing on some channel again, whether it's my personal art account, whether it's my YouTube account, I don't know. That's where I foresee being able to share this stuff, where I can go fully into depth of what that journey looks like for us. So you'll be the first to find out if that's what I ultimately decide to do.

[00:08:25] Jason: I'll be the first to find out. Then they'll be the second.

[00:08:27] Caroline: Okay. You'll be the second to find out.

[00:08:29] Jason: Okay.

[00:08:30] Caroline: But I feel very grateful that we have an answer, and I know a lot of people search for years and don't know what the answer is. So for us, the bottom line is I have two different conditions that have to do with blood clotting, and that is what is preventing me from staying pregnant. Getting pregnant, not an issue. Staying pregnant is the issue. And one of them is, I don't even know what the rarity is of, I have not found anyone yet who has both things.

[00:09:00] Jason: Right.

[00:09:00] Caroline: I only find one or the other. One of them is a genetic mutation. It's called Factor V Leiden. And there's a really nerdy scientific explanation which I won't get into, but I love finding the science out about it. But it's just, it's a genetic mutation that prevents a process in your body that helps keep your blood from clotting, is the easiest way to say that. So because of this mutation, your blood is more prone to blood clots, and so that causes placental blood clotting. So when obviously you're trying to create an embryo and grow a placenta and grow to nourish a baby. If your body can't do that, and if it's clotting, then you're not going to have a successful pregnancy, that's one thing that's happening. That is something you can't control. That's a genetic mutation.

[00:09:47] Jason: As we call in our family...

[00:09:49] Caroline: A genetic weakness.

[00:09:50] Jason: Right. Yeah.

[00:09:50] Caroline: Which we laughed about it.

[00:09:52] Jason: Just to laugh about it.

[00:09:52] Caroline: And then on the other side, I have an additional autoimmune disorder called antiphospholipid antibody syndrome, which is APS for short. And this is another thing that deals with a totally different mechanism in the body that also affects blood clotting.

[00:10:10] Jason: Wild.

[00:10:10] Caroline: Which is wild. And I don't know what the statistics are of having both of those things. It's not like they go hand in hand. It's just a coincidence that they both have to do with clotting. And that is basically, your body is creating as an immune response, these antibodies that are attacking proteins in your blood that's making it more prone to clotting. And again, there's more scientific explanation to all these things, but bottom line, bad at clotting.

[00:10:35] Jason: Question from the crowd here.

[00:10:37] Caroline: Yes, you in the front.

[00:10:38] Jason: Just teeing this up. I'm actually a part of the show, so I'm a plant, and I have a question.

[00:10:43] Caroline: Okay. Great.

[00:10:44] Jason: How do you find out if you have these things, Caroline?

[00:10:47] Caroline: Well, they have to do genetic testing for the Factor V Leiden.

[00:10:50] Jason: Which is?

[00:10:51] Caroline: A blood test.

[00:10:52] Jason: Which is just a blood test.

[00:10:53] Caroline: Okay.

[00:10:53] Jason: Yeah.

[00:10:53] Caroline: I was like...

[00:10:54] Jason: Just so you know...

[00:10:55] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:10:55] Jason: ...we've been through it, but...

[00:10:56] Caroline: Oh, it's true. No, it's true.

[00:10:57] Jason: ...if you would have told me three months ago you have to do genetic testing, I would have gone, is that 23andMe? Am I sending a spit sample? I am doing a thing...

[00:11:05] Caroline: I don't know actually, you could maybe find out. I don't know actually...

[00:11:06] Jason: Yeah.

[00:11:06] Caroline: ...the ins and outs of genetic testing. I found out through a blood test. And same for the antiphospholipid syndrome. They do a panel, and they have certain markers that are the presence of those antibodies. It's like a checklist for APS. Like if you have recurrent miscarriage and these couple of markers, then they consider you likely to have it. And then you have to do a repeat test within 12 weeks to confirm that. So I have taken the first test, which all my markers show that I likely have this. I have to go back on Monday and take a repeat test to just confirm. There is a slight chance that the APS is just from by elevated levels or just from the first two pregnancies. But as far as I asked, I'm pretty sure it's just like, no, if you have these markers, you have it.

[00:11:55] Jason: You have it. Yeah.

[00:11:56] Caroline: Yeah. Just to what degree you have it.

[00:11:57] Jason: Just so everyone knows, I think you've given now 15 vials of blood to Country of Portugal.

[00:12:01] Caroline: Y'all, as a girl who hates needles and really suffered with an anxiety disorder for many, many years and used to literally have panic attacks thinking about giving blood, I am so good at giving blood and...

[00:12:13] Jason: You've gotten good at it. Yeah.

[00:12:13] Caroline: I've gotten so good at it, and I just want to share that, for those of you who have health anxiety, for those of you who feel like it's impossible to do these tests, you can do it.

[00:12:20] Jason: Yeah.

[00:12:20] Caroline: I promise you, you can do it, and it's going to be okay.

[00:12:24] Jason: At the same time, I also did a genetic test just to find out if there was anything that I could be contributing to this scenario that may have caused an issue.

[00:12:32] Caroline: And you want to tell everyone that you're genetically perfect.

[00:12:34] Jason: And I don't have any genetic weakness.

[00:12:35] Caroline: They said, "Wow, A plus genes."

[00:12:37] Jason: They're like, "Your teeth suck, but..."

[00:12:39] Caroline: They didn't say that.

[00:12:39] Jason: "...and your knees are falling apart. However, genetically on the inside, you're okay."

[00:12:44] Caroline: Thank you, babe, for contributing that.

[00:12:45] Jason: So just wanted to share. That is the thing that we learned. So what do we do with that information?

[00:12:49] Caroline: Oh, I also wanted to say, from what I have learned about other people's experiences, this is not the first thing that they test for. The only reason that I found this out so relatively early was because my mom just this past year found out that she had Factor V because she had a weird freak accident where she had this huge bruise and blood clot. And so they tested her for it. So immediately after the second miscarriage, I was able to go to my doctor and say, "My mom just found out she has Factor V. Could this be one of the causes?" And she said, "I don't know, but let's test." And that's where she ran the full panel. So that's the only reason I found this.

[00:13:26] Jason: Yeah.

[00:13:27] Caroline: So relatively soon from all of it, I know it's not the first thing that they look for. So you, I think, if you're listening to this, you have to be your own advocate to say, I would really like to do this panel...

[00:13:38] Jason: Yeah.

[00:13:38] Caroline: ...whether it's antiphospholipid antibody syndrome or a Factor V or something like that, which I have empathy for doctors where there's a million...

[00:13:47] Jason: Of course, yeah.

[00:13:48] Caroline: ...reasons that could contribute to miscarriage. But I feel throughout this whole process, I've been looking for every silver lining. Not like in a toxic positivity, like I can't feel sad because we know that there have been plenty of days where I feel my feelings on that, but I'm just the type of person who looks for the positive and what I can control in my mindset. And so I have been focusing on the gratitude I have that we were able to find this early in the process that we have an answer. And the thing we didn't share is that it's treatable.

[00:14:18] Jason: Yeah.

[00:14:18] Caroline: So the protocol for both of these is to be on blood thinner medication and injectable blood thinner medication, which means daily blood thinner injections with needles every single day from the day that I find out I'm pregnant again to six weeks after having the baby.

[00:14:39] Jason: Yeah. This is again, for those of you who are not...

[00:14:42] Caroline: I have to smile because what the fuck.

[00:14:44] Jason: For those of you who are not well-versed in what an injectable means on a daily basis, I, in a previous life had injected myself with something, and it was the use a syringe...

[00:14:53] Caroline: Something. Do you want to say what it was?

[00:14:55] Jason: No.

[00:14:55] Caroline: Heroin?

[00:14:56] Jason: Use a syringe...

[00:14:57] Caroline: It wasn't heroin.

[00:14:58] Jason: ...pull an amount of liquid out of a little tubule and then push the syringe into your body, and you do that. These are like the little, it's like a ballpoint pen. It's like you clicking the back of a ballpoint pen. And it...

[00:15:08] Caroline: Okay. Well, we don't know that yet, Jason.

[00:15:09] Jason: Oh, I'm like 95% certain.

[00:15:12] Caroline: Really?

[00:15:12] Jason: Yeah, we talked about it with the doctor because I had asked the type of mechanism...

[00:15:16] Caroline: It already has it loaded?

[00:15:17] Jason: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like a preload...

[00:15:18] Caroline: Okay. Because we done both. Some of them you have to mix.

[00:15:20] Jason: Yeah. But it's just the mechanism is way easier. It's just like the little thumb. I'm doing a little thumb motion with my finger, like a ballpoint pen that you click on and click off.

[00:15:27] Caroline: Yeah, I do like the ballpoint ones.

[00:15:28] Jason: Yeah. So I'm just sharing that with people who might be listening to be like, "Oh, well, I'm never going to do that." That is way easier than like a syringe that you have to fill up and do.

[00:15:37] Caroline: Totally.

[00:15:37] Jason: So I'm just sharing. It is absolutely terrible that the protocol will be a daily injection that you have to do for this...

[00:15:43] Caroline: But silver lining...

[00:15:44] Jason: ...but silver lining, it is not...

[00:15:45] Caroline: ...if it's the pen cap, we can do that.

[00:15:46] Jason: Yeah, it is much better. So anyway, that is...

[00:15:48] Caroline: I'm going to do it, regardless. Like, listen, we're here, we're doing it.

[00:15:51] Jason: Yeah. That is our next step in this journey is to start doing that. So that's going to start. You have a prescription for that already ready to be filled, correct?

[00:16:00] Caroline: Yup.

[00:16:00] Jason: Yeah. So it's just, that's our next phase of this. And you, like you said, you're going to keep people posted second after you keep me posted...

[00:16:07] Caroline: Second.

[00:16:08] Jason: ...what that's going to look like and what you want to share. So that is the update on the fertility journey. And nothing really else to share right now.

[00:16:17] Caroline: No. But something that also helps me get through it is... And I don't think my mom would care about sharing this information, but my mom had some fertility struggles as well, which maybe... I mean, they didn't really show up as fertility struggles, but she had a late-stage pregnancy loss before she had me. And I was talking about her with this, which has actually been a lovely byproduct of all this is like, I feel like I've been able to have conversations with my mom that like, maybe I haven't had in the past. But anyway, I was thinking about it last night and it's like I was the result at the end of this really hard and complicated journey for her. And something about knowing that my existence is at the end of that journey for her helps me focus on the fact that all of this is leading up to whichever kid we get.

[00:17:10] Jason: Because you think you're so cool.

[00:17:11] Caroline: I think I'm kick ass.

[00:17:12] Jason: Yeah.

[00:17:12] Caroline: And so I'm like, there's got to be a kick ass person at the end of all this.

[00:17:15] Jason: Wow.

[00:17:16] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:17:16] Jason: That is...

[00:17:17] Caroline: I don't know.

[00:17:18] Jason: Yikes. I mean, I don't...

[00:17:19] Caroline: You wouldn't agree?

[00:17:21] Jason: I'm not going to go on record. This is forever what we're doing right here.

[00:17:26] Caroline: This is forever.

[00:17:27] Jason: And so I can't confirm or deny any feelings that I have.

[00:17:31] Caroline: I see it right in all over your veins.

[00:17:31] Jason: Over my base. Okay. Anything else you want to share?

[00:17:35] Caroline: No, that's it.

[00:17:35] Jason: Okay, great. Let's get to the five weeks that we were traveling and that we were on the road back in the US. So we do a yearly trip back to the US. For those of you who don't know why we don't live in the US, 2022, we traveled full time in Europe for a year. We went to 10 countries. End of 2022, we decided to move into Portugal. We've now lived here for two years in the same exact spot in a tiny little beach town an hour north of Lisbon.

[00:18:03] Caroline: Two years.

[00:18:04] Jason: And last year, we went back around Thanksgiving. Right?

[00:18:07] Caroline: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:07] Jason: So we went back over Thanksgiving. And then this year, we were like, it's a little bit more stressful around the holiday, like getting through the airport. Last year was just a little bit of a nightmare.

[00:18:17] Caroline: And seeing people is hard because everything is built around these very formal... Not formal, but like...

[00:18:21] Jason: Yeah.

[00:18:22] Caroline: ...these family events where people are not even really enjoying themselves.

[00:18:25] Jason: Exactly. So we decided we're like...

[00:18:26] Caroline: Hotcake.

[00:18:26] Jason: ...this year we're going to come back for October where there are no events, there are no things. We have a little bit more quality time.

[00:18:32] Caroline: It's more cash.

[00:18:33] Jason: Yeah. So we flew back and this all started with a girls' trip that you had was like the start of the trip.

[00:18:41] Caroline: Yes.

[00:18:42] Jason: But to recap kind of big picture.

[00:18:44] Caroline: Yes.

[00:18:45] Jason: You were sick three separate times.

[00:18:47] Caroline: Three times I got sick.

[00:18:48] Jason: We had two doctor's visits.

[00:18:48] Caroline: Two doctors' visits.

[00:18:49] Jason: Which we didn't want to do. We missed a hurricane by like a day when we arrived. And then we had a hurricane that we got to endure. Thankfully not up close and personal in the middle of the trip. And it was a bumpy trip. Yeah.

[00:19:05] Caroline: Yeah. If you, going into this, we're like, how did you hope this trip would go? And that's a 10. Like 10 out of 10 when exactly how I would have hoped it went. I would give the reality compared to the expectation, probably about a four. Probably a four.

[00:19:20] Jason: Probably a two. I think if you're just...

[00:19:21] Caroline: Oh no, Jason, we've had a two before. We've had a two.

[00:19:24] Jason: Oh, yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:26] Caroline: No, this was a four.

[00:19:27] Jason: Okay, I get it.

[00:19:27] Caroline: We've had a two before.

[00:19:28] Jason: Yeah.

[00:19:29] Caroline: And so again, I'm looking on the bright side. So...

[00:19:32] Jason: The bright side of a four.

[00:19:33] Caroline: The bright side of a four. And that's...

[00:19:34] Jason: That's out of 10, just in case you were curious, everybody.

[00:19:36] Caroline: I said 10.

[00:19:36] Jason: Okay. I'm just...

[00:19:37] Caroline: And so let's just walk them through it. We're not going to harp on it too much, but in case you've been wondering how that went. So we flew from here into Washington D.C., and thank goodness, I will say that we gave ourselves a few days before my girls' trip, which was like the first big event.

[00:19:53] Jason: I mean, you can thank the change fee that we would have had to endure.

[00:19:59] Caroline: I know. Exactly.

[00:19:59] Jason: Yeah.

[00:19:59] Caroline: And that was why it worked out.

[00:20:00] Jason: Yeah.

[00:20:00] Caroline: So I did have a little bit of a cold the week leading up to this trip because we had friends come over. I'm pretty sure I got picked up something from them. But by the time it was time to leave, I felt totally fine. And so I was like, great.

[00:20:14] Jason: Did some COVID tests. Negative COVID tests.

[00:20:15] Caroline: Negative COVID tests. I was like, fantastic. Again, focusing on the bright side. I was like, wow, that would have sucked if I was sick leading up to this whole trip. Wasn't the best way to get started on a month trip. And also, we hadn't flown in a year and I'm not the best flyer, so that was that. But by the way, the flight leading up to like the flight over, I did pretty well. I just want everyone to know. So again, I'm getting better with my flying. But we land in Alexandria, and I...

[00:20:43] Jason: Well, we landed in D.C., we took the... Alexandria.

[00:20:46] Caroline: We land in D.C., and we have two days there. And over those course of those two days, I feel terrible.

[00:20:50] Jason: Yeah, that's kind of a blur of those two days because I think you were just stuck on the couch.

[00:20:53] Caroline: Do you remember, you just went to the CVS, and you got me some stuff and we just watched the Vince McMahon documentary on Netflix.

[00:21:00] Jason: Oh, that's right. Completely forgot about...

[00:21:02] Caroline: Where there's like eight episodes.

[00:21:03] Jason: Yeah.

[00:21:03] Caroline: We was like, that's all we did for two days. But thankfully, we had a little bit of time. And I felt better by the time that. So I just was sick and fine. But I'm like, yes, it's my girls' weekend and I'm feeling better for the girls' weekend. And so this is a shitty way to start the trip, but at least it's... Could have been worse, right? I do my girls' weekend. Fantastic. That was definitely a highlight. Had such a good time. These are my college girlfriends. We try to do a get together every single year. This year we were in Seaside, Florida, which is one of Jason and I's favorite places to go. Had a lot of really good meals, a lot of really good laughs. This year we did a PowerPoint night where everyone got to do life updates via presentation. And a shout out to Canva because Brooke and I both used Canva, and everyone was like, "How did you all do this?" And I was like, "Y'all are sleeping on Canva because it makes it look so effortless." That was a really fun night.

[00:21:53] Jason: I think if you're looking for a fun activity this holiday season with your family...

[00:21:58] Caroline: Oh, that would be so fun.

[00:21:59] Jason: ...100% would recommend doing a PowerPoint night. It's really just a slide presentation of what's been going on in your life the last year. And I think, like...

[00:22:06] Caroline: And I know people don't want projects like a couple of our girlfriends. Like I didn't have time. It's fine. But I'm telling you, if you invest 30 minutes...

[00:22:12] Jason: Yeah.

[00:22:13] Caroline: ...it is worth the payoff.

[00:22:13] Jason: And it's just, you can just put like a bullet or two and then just talk through in there.

[00:22:17] Caroline: Exactly.

[00:22:17] Jason: So it seems very silly, but I think it's a very millennial thing to do.

[00:22:20] Caroline: It was very fun.

[00:22:21] Jason: Yeah.

[00:22:21] Caroline: One of Brooke's agenda items was ailments and illnesses.

[00:22:24] Jason: Yeah.

[00:22:24] Caroline: She just went through, like we're in our mid-30s now, and I think everyone can relate...

[00:22:27] Jason: Of course.

[00:22:28] Caroline: ...to your body just starts breaking down. That was really fun. Then what did you do during that time?

[00:22:33] Jason: Oh, yeah, I was just staying in a condo on the beach by myself. And just every day just like hanging out in the sand. And this is the Gulf side of Florida, which is actually like the beautiful ocean side of Florida. When you get to the Atlantic side, the water is mostly brown. It's usually pretty choppy. It's not the most exciting to go in, but the Gulf side was beautiful. It's clear water, very calm. I watch dolphins like four times a day...

[00:22:56] Caroline: Cute.

[00:22:56] Jason: ...just play in the water. I got to experience Instacart again and having groceries delivered.

[00:23:01] Caroline: We are going to talk about all of the...

[00:23:03] Jason: Because...

[00:23:03] Caroline: ...American accoutrement that we...

[00:23:05] Jason: There is, I think, a grocery delivery service through the grocery stores here, but we have not been able to figure it out in Portugal.

[00:23:13] Caroline: It certainly not as accessible as Instacart.

[00:23:13] Jason: Yeah. And also, we have a car here. We live one mile from the grocery store. It's very easy when you're staying at a place, you don't have a car, and you don't want to take an Uber to the grocery store and navigate that. So anyway, that was just fun for me. Like, I got to play the game of using those apps again, DoorDash and Instacart and...

[00:23:27] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:23:27] Jason: ...haven't used those for almost three years.

[00:23:29] Caroline: Yeah. And also, silver lining, the way that the timing out was the Gulf is pretty vulnerable to hurricanes...

[00:23:36] Jason: Yeah.

[00:23:36] Caroline: ...and the trip just happened to fall in between Helene and Milton.

[00:23:41] Jason: Yeah.

[00:23:43] Caroline: So I was grateful that our trip didn't get canceled or anything. Obviously, there are many worse things...

[00:23:49] Jason: Of course.

[00:23:49] Caroline: ...like all of the flooding that happened in North Carolina and just the destruction and the tornadoes from Milton were wild. So that's not to say that that... I'm aware that that's not the worst thing to happen. But again, as long as we're counting silver linings, I was grateful that that trip still was able to go ahead. However, that was stressful during this whole time. Right? Because we thought we were going to come back and just be able to focus on family. And we thought we were hitting the end of hurricane season, but as we all know, hurricane season is changing...

[00:24:16] Jason: Yeah.

[00:24:16] Caroline: ...and it is becoming a longer time period with these stronger storms. And so we had the stress of just following the weather and what was happening. And so by the end of that weekend, then they were talking about Milton coming. And so we drove back to Jacksonville. We did get a couple of days to spend with your family before Milton was supposed to hit. And so we were just like, okay, we're buckling down, and everyone's sort of making plans like are you staying at home? My parents went up to my uncle's house in Georgia, et cetera. Thankfully, it didn't hit our little spot...

[00:24:50] Jason: Area of Florida.

[00:24:50] Caroline: Area of Florida. Like I said, I know a lot of my friends who were like farther south had quite a bit of damage.

[00:24:59] Jason: Yeah, in the direct path. I mean, it's just one of those things that's just it makes it very difficult to want to go back to a place when you could get rocked by a hurricane and go back, and then you're like, we're sitting in an Airbnb for three days waiting on a hurricane to go by.

[00:25:12] Caroline: Right. And you feel like we came here to see family, and we were just, yeah...

[00:25:16] Jason: Sitting in an Airbnb. Yeah.

[00:25:16] Caroline: ...hanging out in an Airbnb. And so that part was not fun. But of course, silver lining, could have been worse. But we did get to see family. I got to see my mom a bunch and got to see a new nephew who was born this year that I had never met before, and my little nieces, your nephews. Like it was all a lot of really good family things. Then I get another tickle in my throat, and I'm like, okay, am I getting sick again? Like what's happening? And the thing is, it wasn't COVID, but the thing is with my dad's health, he very much is at this stage with his health where even a bad cold would really be very detrimental to him. And so that was my biggest fear. So now I'm living in this fearful place of I have these symptoms. I don't want to go be around anyone, get anyone sick. And so I said, okay, we had plans for my... I hadn't even seen my dad yet. And he's obviously one of the most important people in my life. One of the major reasons I went back and I'm so disappointed because I've been sitting in an Airbnb for a hurricane for a few days, and now I'm sick and I can't see anyone. So I waited it out a few days. Nothing really was getting better. Finally, I said, we got to go to the doctor and just see what this is. The verdict was it was just a lingering...

[00:26:30] Jason: Viral infection.

[00:26:31] Caroline: Yeah, viral infection. Can't do anything about it. She's like, "Just gargle salt water." She's like, "You're not contagious anymore. This is just a lingering infection that you have not beat yet." But I was happy to know that it was not contagious. I took all of her advice. And then the next day, I did feel a lot better. So just like, stay hydrated, all those things. So I was able to see my dad two times before we left.

[00:26:56] Jason: Yeah.

[00:26:57] Caroline: I would have loved to have seen him more, but I was just grateful that at least it wasn't COVID and...

[00:27:01] Jason: Yeah, we got to do a family dinner at a barbecue restaurant...

[00:27:03] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:27:03] Jason: ...and kids were running around, and we did get the quality family time that I think we were looking for. The thing that we didn't get that we did last time was we were those people that were like, okay, we're going to bring a bunch of stuff back with us that we miss from the US. Like we're going to go to Target. We're going to get things. And this time when we were feeling it out before we went on the trip, we were like, well, yeah, there's things that we want. And when we were there, we were basically like, we don't need to get anything.

[00:27:32] Caroline: Mm-mm.

[00:27:32] Jason: Like we now, this is our second year living in Portugal full time. We have fully acclimated to the things we can get here, and you can get all the things you need. They're just different types of things. They're different than you maybe know well. And it broke us of a lot of the... Even for me, I want to get like a bunch of Cheez-It or a bunch of snacks or a bunch of things. It was like I bought a bag of peanut butter M&M's, and like, I could get those here somewhere. They're not as easy to get, but it just wasn't a thing that we cared about. And we just didn't feel like we needed to get all of the American things that we missed to bring them back over, which was a...

[00:28:05] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:28:05] Jason: ...really weird shift for us.

[00:28:06] Caroline: It was a big shift. I think year one, it felt very much like we are on this temporary adventure in a different country. And so when we got back to our "homeland", we were like, oh, let's get all of our stuff that's our creature comforts, all that stuff. Very much year two, it's now clear that we have made a life here. And this feels like home. Portugal feels like home to us. And so when we got back to America, I felt like I was in a foreign land...

[00:28:34] Jason: Yeah.

[00:28:34] Caroline: ...when I was there. I felt like it was like, oh, I don't know how to explain it, except to say that I had broken my desire for a lot of those things. And so yeah, we didn't bring anything... I mean, we had a handful of things.

[00:28:48] Jason: Yeah, small things.

[00:28:48] Caroline: I bought some Sharpie markers.

[00:28:49] Jason: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think one of the things that was really noticeable this time when we went last year in 2023, we definitely felt the prices were different. Again, we live in a small beach town in Portugal. The prices for groceries seem very fair. The prices at restaurants seem very fair. Nothing really seems like you're paying a lot of money, unless you go to a really nice restaurant in Lisbon, which we've done. And like it's expensive anywhere to go to a nice restaurant in a big city. But when we went back this time, we really noticed the price of everything. We would have a breakfast, and it was $50 for breakfast.

[00:29:26] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:29:26] Jason: We would have a lunch, and it was just the two of us, and it was $80.

[00:29:29] Caroline: And I'm just commenting on that because it was very noticeable this time.

[00:29:34] Jason: And I think just to empathize with people who live in the US and listens to this podcast.

[00:29:38] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:29:38] Jason: Most of our audience lives in the US and listens to this podcast. And like we feel you.

[00:29:43] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:29:43] Jason: You all have been seeing this go up since 2020, and we moved away from it in 2022. And...

[00:29:50] Caroline: Now that said, do I think that a post pandemic world has a lot to do with that?

[00:29:55] Jason: Of course.

[00:29:56] Caroline: Of course. I'm not going to get into the economics here or the politics of all of that. I'm just merely saying as an observation, no, you're not imagining things.

[00:30:05] Jason: Exactly.

[00:30:06] Caroline: As two people who left and then came back, it was very shocking and noticeable.

[00:30:10] Jason: Yeah. And again, I'm just sharing this not as a place to complain, just as a place to show you someone who's living in a different place. So I go to the grocery store, our grocery Sherpa. And typically, here in Portugal, I'll get like four tote bags full of groceries, and it's anywhere between 80 to 100, let's call it dollars, because it's pretty close. It's 100 if I'm getting more snacks. Let's just be honest.

[00:30:33] Caroline: Okay.

[00:30:33] Jason: When we were in the US, that same grocery haul was like $200, $250.

[00:30:39] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:30:40] Jason: Very noticeably different in the price of things. And again, not saying that as a complaint, just sharing it as a, here's how it looks different here.

[00:30:49] Caroline: Their price point. A data point. Yeah, and the other big thing that we noticed that we knew the previous year, but it really hit us hard this time, was the difference in how the food made us feel.

[00:30:58] Jason: And not even food at restaurants.

[00:31:00] Caroline: No, I'm talking like we ate a lot of our meals. This is another big difference. The first time we went back, we ate like almost all out because we were like, "Oh, we can't get biscuits and we can't get this.", and whatever.

[00:31:09] Jason: Yeah.

[00:31:09] Caroline: That didn't make us feel good. This time we were like, okay, we're going to go back and we're going to eat how we do at home, which is a couple of meals out, but mostly we're going to make salads at home and we're going to cook our own meals and whatever. No, even the groceries, even the home cooked whole food meals made us feel differently than we do here.

[00:31:25] Jason: Yeah.

[00:31:25] Caroline: It made us feel bloated, it made us feel tired. It just felt like, I don't know how to describe it other than your body just felt weighed down afterwards.

[00:31:34] Jason: Yeah. Yeah, it was a very, very noticeable difference this time. Again, the first year, not as noticeable. This time, extremely noticeable. And so I think it's just one of those things that it's a little bit scary to look at as someone who only comes back once a year to see it. There is definitely stuff in the food in the US preserving it, keeping it longer. Like we talk about this all the time. You buy strawberries here in Portugal. They last three, maybe four days in the fridge.

[00:32:01] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:32:02] Jason: Strawberries in the US last like two weeks in the fridge, which is just wild. Like they shouldn't last that long.

[00:32:06] Caroline: Yeah. The bread that we bought lasted so long.

[00:32:07] Jason: The bread lasted like a month. And we just stopped eating it, but left on the counter to see if it would ever get mold on it, and it never did.

[00:32:13] Caroline: It never did.

[00:32:14] Jason: And I was like, "Uncle Dave, you got to get some mold on your bread at some point, bud. Like I don't know what you're doing." But anyway, again, sharing that not to complain about the US, just to share the different perspective for people who might be thinking about it. And I think that was one thing that we hadn't noticed as much the first time we went back, and we definitely noticed at this time the price of things, the quality of things. I will say though, I've got to give a little bit of credit, one thing that I didn't realize I missed as much as I do...

[00:32:40] Caroline: Go on.

[00:32:41] Jason: Jeni's ice cream.

[00:32:42] Caroline: Oh, Jeni's.

[00:32:43] Jason: My goodness, that ice cream is delicious. If there is one thing that I am just like, I wish we could get it here, like can we set up a stand?

[00:32:50] Caroline: Give me all the preservatives. I don't care.

[00:32:51] Jason: But that being said, we did find the local ice cream place finally, recently...

[00:32:56] Caroline: That has good flavors. But not Jeni's flavors.

[00:32:56] Jason: ...that has very good flavors. It's not Jeni's, but it is, they do some complex flavors, and it is delicious. But we did go through a couple of cartons of Jeni's...

[00:33:06] Caroline: Do you think they're open in the winter season?

[00:33:06] Jason: Yeah, I think so.

[00:33:07] Caroline: Okay.

[00:33:07] Jason: Yeah, I think that place is an establishment.

[00:33:08] Caroline: Okay.

[00:33:08] Jason: It's like this little restaurant on a beach and like I think it's open for that. But anyway, that's kind of the how it felt to go back. What are the things we experienced and didn't experience.

[00:33:19] Caroline: And then the final leg of our tour, for US tour.

[00:33:22] Jason: Well, final two legs.

[00:33:23] Caroline: Sure. Of our US tour, I should say.

[00:33:24] Jason: Yeah. Oh, yes. Got it. I'm sorry.

[00:33:25] Caroline: We flew up to back... Area to hang out with your grandparents.

[00:33:30] Jason: Yeah, we stayed at my grandparents' house for four nights, which is always an experience for those of you who get to visit your grandparents. Like they have lots of tchotchkes. They have lots of things. I love to tell people that when you sit on the toilet in my grandparents' guest bathroom, there is a tiny doll that faces the corner and is the creepiest thing, but at the same time the most hilarious thing because I'm like, "Grandma, you chose to put this doll in the bathroom looking away as someone..."

[00:33:55] Caroline: What's it doing there?

[00:33:56] Jason: It's doing exactly what we're talking about doing. And she just laughs...

[00:33:59] Caroline: I know.

[00:33:59] Jason: ...and it's just great. But yeah, we had a couple of good days with them. It's always good to see the grandparents and spend time with them.

[00:34:05] Caroline: We played a couple games, which were really fun.

[00:34:06] Jason: But it could be... We do love the area that they live. They live in in Arlington, which is outside of D.C.

[00:34:11] Caroline: And Arlington in the fall...

[00:34:12] Jason: Oh, yeah.

[00:34:12] Caroline: ...is so gorgeous. The leaves are changing.

[00:34:14] Jason: Went to a little farmers' market.

[00:34:15] Caroline: Went to a farmers' market. So we got some good like fall vibe stuff happening. And then the day before we were supposed to go to our big finale which was in Mexico vacation, because we haven't been on vacation this year, I had got a little tickle again. The throat tickle was back.

[00:34:31] Jason: Yeah.

[00:34:31] Caroline: I thought I had kicked it.

[00:34:32] Jason: The exact same thing, basically, for the third time.

[00:34:35] Caroline: The exact same thing. It was clearly this viral infection that just would not leave my system. I mean, it wasn't bad. It wasn't painful or anything to begin with.

[00:34:45] Jason: Again, took COVID test.

[00:34:46] Caroline: Again, I took a COVID test.

[00:34:47] Jason: I don't think anybody actually cares, but we just like to say it to show that we do care.

[00:34:51] Caroline: I do think people care. And I care because I do think you have a responsibility to not...

[00:34:54] Jason: Well, no, I think people listening to this podcast here, I'm saying, as a collective whole...

[00:34:58] Caroline: Oh, sure, sure, sure.

[00:34:58] Jason: ...I don't think people care. People are getting on planes, and they don't care anymore.

[00:35:01] Caroline: Well, that's fine.

[00:35:01] Jason: Yeah.

[00:35:02] Caroline: So we get to Mexico, and after a day, again, I have a fever.

[00:35:09] Jason: Yeah.

[00:35:09] Caroline: Again, I have... It feels like I'm swallowing glass. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me?

[00:35:14] Jason: Yeah.

[00:35:15] Caroline: I mean, you could look at this as a positive or a negative, but the weather was terrible.

[00:35:20] Jason: Yeah, it was very rainy the first three days.

[00:35:21] Caroline: It was rainy. And so I was like, well, I'm sad that we're on this vacation and we plan this vacation and it's not sunny, but on the positive side, I'm sick, so at least it makes me feel like I can just be inside and try to recover. So the first four days of our vacation, I'm just going to be real with you, we're not that exciting. It felt a little frustrating to pay all this money to go to this beautiful resort and just basically be inside.

[00:35:43] Jason: Yeah. And to be honest, from my side, this was the last vacation without kids is how I was thinking about it.

[00:35:50] Caroline: Right.

[00:35:50] Jason: And so the weather was a bummer no matter what, but seeing you feel this crappy yet again was even more of a bummer. I got to give a shout out to ChatGPT. So we were sitting there and we were going back and forth. We're like, okay, should we try and find a doctor? Should we do whatever? So I just hopped on ChatGPT. It's like, "Hey..."

[00:36:05] Caroline: This is also before I knew it was a viral infection. So I was thinking maybe antibiotics...

[00:36:09] Jason: Right.

[00:36:09] Caroline: ...can help me get rid of it.

[00:36:10] Jason: But I was like, "Hey, my wife is feeling this way. I don't know if this is offered, but is there a doctor that might come to the hotel? And I don't pay like a ton of money for this, but is it reasonable?" Tober, as we call ChatGPT, fired off three different services that do that. I looked them up. Incredible reviews on Google. It was cheaper. I mean, I guess this shouldn't be a surprise, but it was a surprise to me, at least. It was cheaper to have a doctor in Mexico come to our hotel and look at you and do a bunch of tests and give you a little bit of medication than it was to go to the urgent care in Florida and see a doctor to get the exact same thing.

[00:36:43] Caroline: Yeah, I don't think that's going to surprise anyone. But...

[00:36:45] Jason: But it was one of the things that was surprising to me.

[00:36:47] Caroline: Yes, of course.

[00:36:47] Jason: Yeah, I'm just sharing that.

[00:36:48] Caroline: Yeah. And again, as someone who has dealt with health and deals with. Still deals with health anxiety, meaning I can very much get into a spiraling place with, when I don't know what's going on with my body, I can't help. And I try, I coach myself up. I do all the meditations, I do all the things, but each day that went by, I'm getting to this place where I know we have to fly back to Portugal, which is already a very hard thing for me to do.

[00:37:15] Jason: Especially because it's an overnight flight. So it's really tough.

[00:37:17] Caroline: It's really tough for me. And so I'm picturing at this point, it was also, I was in my head about like, oh, can I breathe? Like I don't know, is it getting down to my chest? Like, I just, all these things I didn't know. And then I'm like, well, but having a doctor come and like how well do they speak English? And how do I get my medication if they... Like all these unknowns that was very much causing an uncertainty as well. But thankfully, I was just so happy that I made the choice to have the doctor come because it made me feel so much better. I'm sharing that for anyone who, if you're on vacation somewhere, you're in a different country, don't be afraid. Look up one of these services and get yourself the care that you need if you're an anxious person like myself.

[00:38:01] Jason: Yeah.

[00:38:01] Caroline: Because Dr. Gomez was an absolute treasure.

[00:38:04] Jason: I mean, we spent 90% of the time talking about just life in general and his practice that he started with his friend. And...

[00:38:11] Caroline: Yeah, he's an entrepreneur.

[00:38:12] Jason: Yeah.

[00:38:12] Caroline: We talk about business. But he was so kind. He put my mind immediately at ease. He told me why he was prescribing certain things, why antibiotics he wasn't prescribing because of the viral thing. And he's like, all this stuff. So that I was glad that we finally made the choice to do that.

[00:38:29] Jason: Yeah.

[00:38:30] Caroline: And then after we made that choice, it was as if the universe said, way to go...

[00:38:35] Jason: Yeah.

[00:38:35] Caroline: ...because the sun came out. And so for three days, we got beautiful sunshine. We got to go sit by the pool.

[00:38:41] Jason: And I do want to give credit to previous us, I'm just saying me, for booking the Mexican trip for seven days because...

[00:38:47] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:38:47] Jason: ...I just knew that we needed when I booked it, I was like, I want this to feel like we are so ready to leave because we are bored...

[00:38:54] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:38:54] Jason: ...of sitting at a Mexican resort. And...

[00:38:58] Caroline: If we would have booked four days...

[00:38:58] Jason: If we would have booked four days, we would have literally not had a nice day of the trip.

[00:39:01] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:39:01] Jason: So it was very fortunate that we had that extra time. It was very fortunate. The weather took a turn for the better and we did just get to sit by the pool. We got to enjoy a couple cocktails, got to enjoy the pool, got to enjoy the ocean.

[00:39:13] Caroline: We played cards.

[00:39:14] Jason: It was 82 degrees the entire time.

[00:39:16] Caroline: The food at this resort was incredible. We got to go to a nice dinner.

[00:39:19] Jason: Yeah, it was very, very good. So it did finish out on a high note, which is fantastic. You survived for the first time ever, two flights in the same day.

[00:39:28] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:39:29] Jason: So we flew...

[00:39:30] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:39:30] Jason: ...back up to Dulles from Cancun...

[00:39:33] Caroline: Yup.

[00:39:33] Jason: ...which was about a four-hour flight. We had a couple hour layover, and then from Dulles overnight back to Lisbon.

[00:39:38] Caroline: Which most people listening to this are like, yeah, that's what you do?

[00:39:41] Jason: But that's not what Carol does.

[00:39:42] Caroline: That's not what I do.

[00:39:43] Jason: Yeah.

[00:39:43] Caroline: Every time we do an international flight, we do like, let's say typically we go like Portugal to Boston. We stay a night in Boston, and then the next day, we do like Boston to Jacksonville or whatever.

[00:39:54] Jason: Yeah.

[00:39:55] Caroline: Because of how I fly and how much it takes a toll on me. We've always done that. But this time, the way that it all worked out and everything too, I was like, after all that, I don't think I'm going to want to like...

[00:40:07] Jason: Yeah.

[00:40:07] Caroline: ...do a flight, check into a hotel. No, I am going to do that going forward because the two flights in one day, I survived it. It was fine. But it is not how I operate.

[00:40:15] Jason: Yeah. So the big learnings from our five weeks away are, A, never go back to Florida in October because that's still in hurricane season...

[00:40:21] Caroline: Don't do that.

[00:40:21] Jason: ...and we're not about to do that.

[00:40:22] Caroline: Yup. We're going to be spring visitors from now on.

[00:40:25] Jason: Yup. B, always book the vacation for seven days so that you have the time if you get sick. Just have that allotted time. And C, Jeni's ice cream is still great. Those are my three big takeaways for everybody.

[00:40:39] Caroline: Fantastic, babe.

[00:40:39] Jason: Yeah.

[00:40:39] Caroline: The great thing about this trip not exactly going to how we wanted to is, ironically, I came home with this overwhelming sense of gratitude.

[00:40:49] Jason: Home in Portugal.

[00:40:50] Caroline: Home in Portugal. And I will say, of course, it was tainted by the fact that the day that we got back was the election.

[00:41:01] Jason: Yeah.

[00:41:01] Caroline: And like a lot of people who were devastated, I was also in a deep pit of despair for a few days until I was able to come out of it and just focus on the future. But I still have this lingering sense of gratitude apart from that, personally, because whenever you get sick, you have more gratitude for your health. You know what I mean? And so when I finally was able to feel better, I had a renewed sense of gratitude for my health. I think it gave me so much gratitude for where we live here. And of course, every day we make an effort to live in that space of being thankful for the life that we've built here. But when you have something to compare it to, and this is a part, of course, for my friends and family, but just I came back to Portugal with such, just amazing sense of thankfulness for our past selves, and really you for leading the charge and taking the risk and...

[00:42:00] Jason: Not you, the podcast listener. You, me.

[00:42:02] Caroline: You, Jason, my husband.

[00:42:03] Jason: Yeah. Right.

[00:42:04] Caroline: For having the courage to do something different in life. And I was scared, and I was apprehensive, and I didn't know what was on the other side of that decision, but I just sort of trusted that it was going to be great. And we've built this beautiful life. So I am really happy for that. And I've just been diving much deeper into the things that bring me joy on a daily basis. Again, I think when things in the world are going crazy and you don't know what to do, focus in on your just most immediate surroundings and your mental health and your good mental hygiene of what makes you feel most grounded. And that's what I've been focusing on. And I'm in a sort of business renaissance, I would say.

[00:42:47] Jason: Yeah, I mean, this tends to happen to us maybe once a year or two, for sure. And I think that there are a lot of things, as you may be heard in a recent episode where we had talked about with Wandering Aimfully, I'm feeling a little less excited about Wandering Aimfully and just, I think online business education stuff. And I think it's just the natural thing for someone like me, where this is not something that lit me up in the beginning, but I was excited to move into it and exist in this space for a while, but I'm not feeling as excited about. So it's kind of like I'm passing the baton of my excitement to you for Wandering Aimfully. Again, we talked about this in a previous episode, but I'm feeling excited about working on Teachery. And so in being more in the software world and like, how do we figure that out as a business and how do I move that platform forward.

[00:43:32] Caroline: Yeah. I think in future podcast episodes, I would love to dig into that further because I think so many people can relate to this feeling of you hit this phase of your business where you're just not inspired anymore and how do you get reinspired...

[00:43:47] Jason: Yeah.

[00:43:47] Caroline: ...or what do you do as a creator who wants to continually feel like you're enjoying the process. And funny enough, I feel, as you just described, because you're passing the baton, I feel more excited than ever because where I want to take Wandering Aimfully is just talk more about exactly what you just said, which is the human element of continuing to sustain a creator solopreneur business. When you're the person who's fueling it, as you're changing as a person, how are you evolving your business to meet your needs consistently?

[00:44:18] Jason: Yeah.

[00:44:18] Caroline: And of course, making it profitable and making it peaceful and all those things.

[00:44:22] Jason: Yeah. And I do think a lot of this for me is just, it's my natural state of existence where when I had my sponsorships course and that really ran its course for a couple of years. I just said everything I wanted to say about that, and I just was ready to move on to something else. Like, I needed the novelty of something new to drive me for purpose every single day of wanting to work on that thing.

[00:44:44] Caroline: Right.

[00:44:44] Jason: And so I think that's where I'm at. And that's not me saying like, anybody listening to this who's in WAIM, I'm not going to be there anymore. I will still be the person probably running the Slack. I will still be showing up on the coaching calls, but I'm probably going to pull back a little bit from writing any of the emails, maybe filming any of the YouTube videos, orchestrating what we talk about on this podcast. Like I'm just a little bit less excited about that. And so that's why we're a good team because...

[00:45:08] Caroline: But don't worry, you got me.

[00:45:09] Jason: Yeah.

[00:45:10] Caroline: And I'm here.

[00:45:11] Jason: Yeah. You got your APS and your Factor V, and you're ready to party.

[00:45:16] Caroline: That's right.

[00:45:16] Jason: That's a throwback to earlier in the conversation. Those are Carol's genetic weaknesses. And...

[00:45:21] Caroline: People are not going to like that.

[00:45:23] Jason: Maybe they will. I don't know. People like dark jokes.

[00:45:25] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:45:25] Jason: But yeah, so I think for me, as we're bopping back and forth on being in this little bit of a renaissance period or shaking things up here at the end of the year, I'm just excited to figure out what I want to do with Teachery. Like, I'm looking at it as I get full control of this thing again. And I think we have both agreed that I can just do whatever I want, whereas before it was like I had to bring it to you, and not like I had to get your permission in any way.

[00:45:48] Caroline: No. We were equal partners in both businesses, so we were collaborating on everything.

[00:45:51] Jason: Exactly.

[00:45:51] Caroline: And now, I think we did talk about this of how I'm in the back of the covered wagon now.

[00:45:55] Jason: Yeah. And so I'm excited for that.

[00:45:57] Caroline: Me, too.

[00:45:58] Jason: That for me like I don't know what that means. I have engaged with a paid ads company for the first time with Teachery. So we're one month into that. There's no results to share. We had to get everything up and going. But I'm excited to look at like, okay, what does the second month of that look like? The third month is when they said we might actually see some traction and see what that might turn into. But maybe that turns into nothing and it's just at least an experiment I get to share the results of, because that's what I love doing. I love doing things, sharing the results and then doing a new thing and sharing the results. And not so much just like repeating the same thing over and over again because...

[00:46:31] Caroline: Yeah. Whereas I could continue. I find new layers and new depth in talking about marketing again.

[00:46:39] Jason: Yeah.

[00:46:39] Caroline: Because the context is always changing. So I can feel like that's novel, whereas you are kind of like it is what it is...

[00:46:45] Jason: Exactly.

[00:46:45] Caroline: ...and I'm moving on. So we're different in that way. And I've told you about what would it look like to maybe give you a playground space within WAIM to do your experiments and share that with our WAIMers. I think there's so much value in that, and that's what lights you up. So I'm excited about brainstorming ways that we can give you that space to engage...

[00:47:05] Jason: Jason's playground.

[00:47:06] Caroline: Jason's playground.

[00:47:06] Jason: Exactly.

[00:47:08] Caroline: So we're going to continue to share the process with all of you listening to this because, again, I think it's valuable to see how two people continually, as they change, change their business to make sure it's equally fulfilling. And I know that that's what you all, who are listening to this podcast, are doing as well is you're always changing, you're always going, how can I steer my business in a way that continues to light me up and doesn't burn me out? And that's what we like to talk about. And for me, personally, I feel like I've done a total 180 this year. And I don't know if it is due to all the challenges from the fertility stuff, but I feel like whenever you go through struggles, it reveals new things to you about yourself and it clarifies your priorities. And I feel like we started this year, and I just had such a results-oriented as far as focusing on Teachery. And I had these growth goals, and it was all about trying to grow that. And I just feel like it was a lot of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, which I can see now. And I'm ending the year as we come to a close, in this space of wanting to go back to what feels from a place of flow, from a place of what I want to create, not being so results-oriented, being more journey-oriented, more process-oriented, I want to start finally, I feel like I want to create art again. What does it look like for us to share more? Like I alluded to, is that on YouTube, is that going back to social media, but in an intentional way. Unless in like a content extravaganza, if those of you who are listening, who were listening all the way back in May or June, we had this big content plan for sharing content on social media for both businesses. And again, I can look back now and go, that was so results-oriented. Like we were really forcing it and trying to be learn all these lessons about efficiency and about process that we've learned over the years. But in doing that, I feel like we took away the magic, which is if I've learned anything as a creator over 10 years of sharing online, it's you have to just start. You can't worry about it being perfect. You can't worry about the perfect process. You have to just let it be imperfect until you get clay on the table and mold it over time. And I'm excited to dig into what some of those mental roadblocks have been for me because I think there's a lot of people listening who feel the same way we do about social media, but are starting to feel like maybe they want to have a more intentional presence, but now the barrier feels so high because things people are creating online...

[00:49:42] Jason: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:42] Caroline: ...and the short form video revolution and all of these things feel so unattainable. And I'm experiencing that, too. I don't know what it looks like to share my art in 2025, when the last time I was sharing art was basically in 2021. That's four years.

[00:49:57] Jason: Yeah. And I created an account on Bluesky, which I resisted for a long time, but it's basically like a Twitter/X competitor that has been around for a couple years now. I think since Elon bought Twitter, it popped up and now is crossing over, I think 15 million users. So it's actually getting some pretty good traction. And I find myself even like with Threads, like I created a Threads account when it first came out. And the biggest problem that I have, and I think this is where we're just very different, is you always have things that you might want to talk about and might want to share. I'm like I have no clue what I want to share. All I know is I don't want to be like another account that's just sharing opinions about opinions about opinions, you know?

[00:50:36] Caroline: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:50:36] Jason: And I think that like, that is just for me personally that's why I'm so resistant to get back into a habit of sharing content. And I just, I'm curious, like I'm interested in seeing what that could look like. But I also, and maybe some of you can really relate, I'm just like, I don't know if this is worth my time. You know?

[00:50:56] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:50:56] Jason: I would so much rather not put any time into my own personal brand of it all.

[00:51:01] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:51:02] Jason: And I would rather just invest in working with companies to try to reach my goals for a business or be dabbling in creating a new business of my own that then I could just share the journey of where it's less about opinions and it's more about like I did X today. Here's what I learned.

[00:51:16] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:51:16] Jason: Here, you can take it or leave it.

[00:51:18] Caroline: But that's why I think it is so important to not do it because you think you have to, but do it because you want to.

[00:51:22] Jason: Exactly.

[00:51:22] Caroline: Because for the longest time, I think the reason why I just didn't feel like I wanted to share my art or my anything online anymore was just, I didn't want to.

[00:51:32] Jason: Yeah.

[00:51:33] Caroline: I didn't want to feel like it was. But now, like I said, I think it's when you go through something that changes you, at least for me, the type of content that I create, like on my art account for example, the reason I didn't want to share was because I didn't have anything to share. I wasn't really changing, actually. Yes, moving to Portugal was a big shift in my life, but personally, I was just enjoying life. I was just existing. I was just loving being peaceful and away from the noise of social media. But there's this thing about me personally and the fulfillment that I get out of life as an artist is when I go through something transformative, I want to make sense of it. And the way I make sense of it is through art. And then once I make sense of it through my art, I feel compelled to share that.

[00:52:15] Jason: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:15] Caroline: So now I feel like I am entering a new phase where I'm not doing it because I think I should doing it, being sharing online. I'm interested in doing it because I want to...

[00:52:25] Jason: Yeah.

[00:52:25] Caroline: ...because it's coming from an authentic place. And again, I'm hesitant to even share that because I could feel totally differently...

[00:52:34] Jason: Yeah.

[00:52:34] Caroline: ...three weeks from now. All I'm saying is I feel for the first time in years actually really compelled to do that.

[00:52:41] Jason: Yeah. And I almost feel the opposite.

[00:52:44] Caroline: Which is great.

[00:52:45] Jason: Which is hilarious. And we'll share what, I guess, that looks like. And yeah, I think for us, we have had a bunch of conversations of what does this podcast look like moving forward, is it still just a ramble cast where we just are sharing thoughts and things as they're going on and we're not putting much intention behind? Not to say that we're not intentional with this podcast, but there isn't really a focus. There isn't really like a, this podcast helps you do X type of focus. And I'm curious if that will change because we're having lots of conversations here at the end of the year. Like I said, we always do the end of the year. That's when we tend to rethink everything and see what we want to change. So you'll be the first to find out if we end up changing the format here at all, if we end up going back to a video podcast.

[00:53:25] Caroline: Maybe.

[00:53:25] Jason: We'll see how that goes. But I do know one thing that's coming up for us. It's cozy season.

[00:53:31] Caroline: Cozy season, baby.

[00:53:32] Jason: It's cozy season. Tomorrow, as of recording this, this is the earliest we will have ever brought out the Christmas decor boxes.

[00:53:39] Caroline: I've been wearing them down year by year.

[00:53:40] Jason: And it is before Thanksgiving, which is a sacrilege in my family.

[00:53:44] Caroline: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:44] Jason: But we will be putting up all the Christmas decorations before Thanksgiving...

[00:53:48] Caroline: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:48] Jason: ...for the first time ever. We will be cranking the Christmas tunes tomorrow.

[00:53:52] Caroline: Wow.

[00:53:52] Jason: And it is starting. I'm not sure I am okay with Christmas movies yet.

[00:53:56] Caroline: Movies.

[00:53:56] Jason: That is where I'm drawing the line of, I'm not ready to commit to, but I am willing to have some moments of joy with our decor and the music and get into the season. I'm also excited about some baking.

[00:54:07] Caroline: Baking.

[00:54:07] Jason: So I've got a couple pies. I don't know where to get canned pumpkin here in Portugal.

[00:54:12] Caroline: We'll find it.

[00:54:13] Jason: I think the big grocery store in town...

[00:54:15] Caroline: Big one in town.

[00:54:16] Jason: ...like 30 minutes away may have it. But I do want to make a pumpkin pie. I do want to make an apple pie. I watched a little New York Times video of a bunch of pies and...

[00:54:23] Caroline: You're going to have to eat that pumpkin pie by yourself. I do not like pumpkin pie.

[00:54:26] Jason: Oh, that's okay. I'll make a smaller one. I'll make like a half size, so that I can watch my portions. I don't need to eat a whole pumpkin pie by myself. But I'm just excited to get into that season here, as we've come back from a whirlwind of travel, we've spent a lot of time working this year more than the previous year. And so I think for me I am just excited for a little bit of cozy season. Some puzzles.

[00:54:46] Caroline: Oh, yeah. Puzzles come out.

[00:54:48] Jason: Some Nintendo Switch.

[00:54:48] Caroline: The Lego comes out. The Switch comes out.

[00:54:49] Jason: Yeah.

[00:54:50] Caroline: Games and puzzles.

[00:54:50] Jason: For those of you who are curious, we played Luigi's Mansion 3 a couple years ago and we talked about it and loved it. Luigi's Mansion 2, which was out for a Nintendo DS, but then they remastered for the Switch has come out. It's very weird, they were playing Luigi's Mansion 2 after Luigi Mansion 3. But...

[00:55:03] Caroline: It's basically the same game.

[00:55:04] Jason: ...it is almost identical. Yeah.

[00:55:07] Caroline: Almost identical. The graphics are worse.

[00:55:10] Jason: Yeah.

[00:55:10] Caroline: That's shocking at first, but then you get used to it and we're enjoying it very much.

[00:55:12] Jason: Same mechanism of literally just vacuuming. You're just vacuuming for hours on end of the game, which is hilarious.

[00:55:17] Caroline: I know. Actually, it's a perfect game for Jason and I because it's vacuuming meets magic.

[00:55:21] Jason: Yeah.

[00:55:22] Caroline: And so I feel like I am like, ooh, shine the light on that hidden door. And I'm like...

[00:55:27] Jason: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, clean up all the debris.

[00:55:29] Caroline: ...all the mystery that you can't see. And Jason's like, can I actually vacuum every single corner of this room...

[00:55:35] Jason: Yeah.

[00:55:35] Caroline: ...and then get a perfect score?

[00:55:37] Jason: Yeah.

[00:55:37] Caroline: And also check out all the furniture things in this room and make sure I get everything, and then we can leave?

[00:55:41] Jason: Yeah.

[00:55:41] Caroline: And I'm like, yeah, you can.

[00:55:42] Jason: I think we might also have to dabble back into Overcooked for at least one night to...

[00:55:45] Caroline: Oh, yeah.

[00:55:46] Jason: ...to decide we don't want to play it moving forward.

[00:55:48] Caroline: I think so, too.

[00:55:48] Jason: But that is a fun game that we...

[00:55:49] Caroline: Do you want to play that tonight?

[00:55:49] Jason: ...we think we want to play, but then we don't want to play.

[00:55:51] Caroline: Do you want to play that tonight?

[00:55:51] Jason: We can't tonight. We have plans.

[00:55:51] Caroline: Oh, yeah, that's right. We have plans.

[00:55:53] Jason: You forgot about our plans? Yeah. It's nothing exciting. It's just whatever. All right, so I think that'll do it. Let's wrap it up before we get to an hour here. That is our long pramble recap episode of what's been going on the past couple of weeks. As a reminder, we will have six episodes left here before the end of 2025. Then we'll take our normal holiday break in December through the beginning of the year.

[00:56:13] Caroline: I'm going to ask a favor. If you...

[00:56:15] Jason: To me?

[00:56:16] Caroline: No. To our listeners.

[00:56:17] Jason: Okay.

[00:56:18] Caroline: You can leave comments on...

[00:56:19] Jason: Spotify.

[00:56:20] Caroline: ...on Spotify.

[00:56:20] Jason: Yeah.

[00:56:20] Caroline: If you are a podcast listener and you're listening to this episode on Spotify, and you've made it to the end. So two of you.

[00:56:26] Jason: Yeah.

[00:56:27] Caroline: Can you leave a comment on this episode and tell us what you would like to hear about on this podcast?

[00:56:36] Jason: Okay.

[00:56:36] Caroline: Either one of two things. What you would like to hear about in the future or what your favorite part is of why you listen to the podcast? Is it just you like to see how two people do intentional business? Are you looking for tips? Do you just come for the LOLs?

[00:56:50] Jason: Right.

[00:56:50] Caroline: Because we're millennials and we could say LOL.

[00:56:52] Jason: Right.

[00:56:52] Caroline: I'm just really curious. I think I know what space I want this podcast to exist in for the future...

[00:57:00] Jason: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:00] Caroline: ...but it means nothing without the opinion of the people who are listening, so.

[00:57:05] Jason: Of course. All right. Feel free to leave a comment on Spotify. And for those of you who aren't on Spotify, you could always just send us an email, hello@wanderingaimfully.com. That is it for this episode. Good to be back in your ears. And we'll be back next week. And I think we don't have it on our list, but I was reminded while we were doing this update, we should probably do another now we're two years in Portugal. What are the things? Because we've been sharing that takeaways in...

[00:57:26] Caroline: Sure.

[00:57:26] Jason: ...for WAIM Slack and whatever in a couple of little emails.

[00:57:28] Caroline: Sure.

[00:57:28] Jason: But I think it's good to recount it in a full podcast episode because it's very easy for people to share.

[00:57:32] Caroline: It might also be top of mind right now.

[00:57:34] Jason: Oh, yeah, for people who are thinking about possibly living abroad. That could be interesting.

[00:57:38] Caroline: Yup.

[00:57:38] Jason: Okay. All right. That's it. Goodbye.

[00:57:41] Caroline: Goodbye.