200 - Untold stories!

[00:00:00] Caroline: Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help online creators like you build a calm business, one that's predictable, profitable, and peaceful. We're your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an un-boring business coaching program and Teachery, an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.

[00:00:29] Jason: All right, cinnamon rollers, that's you. Let's get into the show. Well, hello, and welcome to episode 200. That's 200, which is how far we've made it on this podcast somehow.

[00:00:48] Caroline: Can you guess if we practice that? We did not practice.

[00:00:50] Jason: 200 episodes.

[00:00:51] Caroline: Just of this podcast. We've had several podcasts even before that.

[00:00:54] Jason: We have. That's a lot. It's a lot of times for people to, like...

[00:00:57] Caroline: Tune in?

[00:00:58] Jason: Click a thing, be like, eh, I'll listen to those two. Sure.

[00:01:01] Caroline: Yeah. I'm excited.

[00:01:03] Jason: What was your favorite era of this podcast? Was it recording in our living room with the three camera video setup, that the lighting was always changed? It was super stressful. You think about the editing.

[00:01:12] Caroline: Wasn't that.

[00:01:12] Jason: Was it the watch pod?

[00:01:13] Caroline: I think it might be the watch pod.

[00:01:14] Jason: Where our friends, literally, their guest bedroom of their home, they set up a studio with a three camera setup that we just showed up to and recorded, like, multiple episodes today, which was amazing.

[00:01:23] Caroline: I did love the watchpod era because it was just an excuse for us to go see our friends.

[00:01:27] Jason: Was it then the relaxed era where we went into your fart studio and we had just the microphones, we had no video, and I used, like, the boom mic, and then you used, like, a cheap handheld mic, because we were just like, we're going frugal on this. We're not doing the three camera thing anymore.

[00:01:40] Caroline: Right. I'm picturing the fart studio at the Carlsbad house.

[00:01:43] Jason: Yeah.

[00:01:44] Caroline: Yeah. No, I did like that era.

[00:01:46] Jason: This is Fart Studio 2.0. Fart Studio 1.0 was when we lived in Leucadia, but we didn't... I don't... We podcast in the living room. That's where we did it.

[00:01:53] Caroline: Really?

[00:01:53] Jason: Yeah.

[00:01:54] Caroline: That's a blur, that era.

[00:01:56] Jason: Then there's also the travel setup, which was the handheld. We did handheld for a year.

[00:02:00] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:02:00] Jason: Yeah.

[00:02:01] Caroline: And then now here.

[00:02:02] Jason: We're back on couches, but with fancier microphones. And who can tell the difference? It's all the same.

[00:02:07] Caroline: I can.

[00:02:08] Jason: It's all the same.

[00:02:08] Caroline: What's the next era going to be, Jason?

[00:02:11] Jason: This is what... I've been barking up this tree of having, like, a fancy studio.

[00:02:14] Caroline: Jason wants a fancy studio. Not super fancy.

[00:02:16] Jason: Yeah.

[00:02:16] Caroline: Mid fancy.

[00:02:17] Jason: I want something that's... We've been doing this for so many years. Like, just to be totally honest, I don't get excited to, like, sit down and record in this environment where we're sitting in our living room on a couch. Yeah.

[00:02:27] Caroline: It's too cash.

[00:02:28] Jason: Yeah. Like, and I do. You know, I think there's maybe something interesting about going back to video, but with a slightly different format of the podcast, where maybe we're talking about things that are a little bit more timely.

[00:02:40] Caroline: And topical.

[00:02:41] Jason: And topical and just kind of, like, keeping... Because we're both starting to feel like Internet dinosaurs. We talked about this in our WAIM community, and so...

[00:02:46] Caroline: Yeah, we should just do a whole podcast episode about that.

[00:02:48] Jason: But.

[00:02:49] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:02:49] Jason: Yeah, I think we will. But also just, you know, that would, I think, force us to be talking more about, like, relevant things that are going on in a format where it's not like we're trying to do hot takes, but it's like, okay.

[00:03:00] Caroline: Well, that's the thing, right? I think anyone who's listening right now and is a listener of our show will probably fall into this bucket as well, where you wanna strike this balance of, of course, I wanna be up on the new things, and I wanna stay evolving. I have an interest in that. But I don't wanna be chasing relevance. And I don't love the idea of feeding into, like, opinion culture. However, like, it's good to have an opinion. It's fine. It's good to have a voice. But where is the line of... Or where is that striking the balance of wanting to share your voice, wanting to stay up on things, wanting to create content that people are interested in right now that's timely.

[00:03:41] Jason: Yeah.

[00:03:42] Caroline: And then also not just, like, trying, you know, accidentally going down that road where we all know those creators who it's all about the hot takes.

[00:03:50] Jason: Yeah. And I look at it, as I have for a long time, of, like, being more of a tastemaker, not of an opinion maker. So it's like, I'm just here to, like, share with you the things that I am liking or that I'm interested in and kind of like...

[00:04:02] Caroline: A curator.

[00:04:03] Jason: Exactly.

[00:04:04] Caroline: Instead of a judgmental lens, which I feel like that's what it evolves into.

[00:04:08] Jason: Don't be Judge Dredd.

[00:04:10] Caroline: Judge. What's it?

[00:04:11] Jason: Judge Dredd. Sly Stallone played that role. It was a comic book back in the day, and then it was reprised in an updated version sometime in the past decade.

[00:04:19] Caroline: Thank you.

[00:04:20] Jason: Yeah, you're welcome. All right, so in episode 200, we were trying to figure out what we wanted to do.

[00:04:24] Caroline: What would be a fun thing. We were like, we could go back through our thing and play old clips, and it's like, yeah, but you listen to them. You're listening to this podcast 'cause you listen to them.

[00:04:33] Jason: Also, how much older do you think we sounded 200 episodes ago or younger? You think we just sound like babies?

[00:04:37] Caroline: No, I think we sound the same. Also, not to bring this up totally live on the air, but I also...

[00:04:44] Jason: This is usually what gets me in trouble, but go ahead.

[00:04:46] Caroline: I know. I'm cruisin' for brazen right now. But I was also thinking, like, we've... It's been a long time since we circled back, also on the idea of doing a, like, interviewing other people. 

[00:04:58] Jason: Yeah.

[00:04:59] Caroline: But you have no interest.

[00:05:00] Jason: I have zero interest.

[00:05:00] Caroline: Okay. Okay.

[00:05:01] Jason: But...

[00:05:01] Caroline: I just thought we should circle back on it.

[00:05:02] Jason: That's okay.

[00:05:03] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:05:03] Jason: I'll say it's not 0.00.

[00:05:06] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:05:06] Jason: It's like 0.01.

[00:05:08] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:05:08] Jason: Yeah.

[00:05:08] Caroline: I just want to check in because I think a long time ago, I know all the reasons why we wanted to keep this just a, for lack of a better term, a solo podcast even though there's two of us. It was an intentional decision not to have guests. But in you bringing back up, like, what's the next evolution of the podcast look like? And are we talking about more timely topics? You know, that is an opportunity to revisit and go, do you bring on experts? Do you bring on people who have topic specific interests? Or do we just keep it ourselves?

[00:05:42] Jason: Right. I don't know. We'll see. 

[00:05:43] Caroline: Okay.

[00:05:44] Jason: Where the next 200 episodes go, we don't know. But what we do know is in this episode.

[00:05:49] Caroline: Yes.

[00:05:49] Jason: We decided pretty much right before recording because we've just been batting around a couple things we were gonna do. And what we came to was, I have four topics that are... They have to be somewhat business adjacent.

[00:06:02] Caroline: Okay.

[00:06:03] Jason: And I... Caroline does not know what those are, but they're about her. They're about things that she has done.

[00:06:07] Caroline: Okay.

[00:06:08] Jason: And then she has four topics about me that I have done in our entrepreneurial journey to just share and talk with. And kind of the way that I was thinking about this when I framed it to you as we were talking about it was, like, these are the interesting things that, like, I would just like to hear you talk about on the podcast, and maybe they've been talked about before. So this might not be totally new news or stories, but just thinking, like, it's basically like four stories to share that the other person doesn't know I'm going to ask you to share about. So it kind of makes it kind of fun, interesting, and for the listener, it's also a little bit fun and interesting for you 'cause you're like, well, what is Caroline going to ask Jason? What is Jason going to ask Caroline? And then we go from there.

[00:06:45] Caroline: Definitely. Now, hearing you describe that, I'm just changing my answers, like, a little bit. That's good. That's good. No, I think you gave me a better idea.

[00:06:53] Jason: Do you need me to ramble on for like a good minute and 30 seconds for you to have ideas?

[00:06:57] Caroline: You're actually one of the few people in my life where I have too many... You know what I mean? I have too many things that you could talk about 'cause you've done so many weird things.

[00:07:08] Jason: True.

[00:07:08] Caroline: So it was hard kind of narrowing it down. Before, when you had tossed this idea to me, it felt like you were framing it like stories.

[00:07:14] Jason: Yeah, they are stories.

[00:07:15] Caroline: Oh, I know they're stories. But then you said topics. Right now, you just said... 

[00:07:19] Jason: Either way.

[00:07:19] Caroline: Yeah. How about you start? So, yeah, you start.

[00:07:26] Jason: Start by asking you to tell a story.

[00:07:28] Caroline: Yep. And then I'll do that. And then I'll definitely take just like a quick gather my thoughts. I will ping pong it right back to you with a very... You guys know, you know that I love, like, I really like to stay on theme.

[00:07:43] Jason: Right.

[00:07:43] Caroline: I really like to stay on scripts.

[00:07:46] Jason: On podcast train.

[00:07:46] Caroline: On podcast train. And also, I don't do well with, like, nebulous directions. I do very well with direct directions.

[00:07:53] Jason: Direct directions. Yeah.

[00:07:54] Caroline: So I'm like a direct directions kind of gal. And so I just feel like my directions got changed, so I know I feel good about it.

[00:08:00] Jason: You're like ChatGPT. You need very specific prompts to get very specific answers.

[00:08:03] Caroline: That is actually perfect.

[00:08:05] Jason: I'm like Google. Give me something. I'll throw back lots of stuff.

[00:08:08] Caroline: Oh, yeah.

[00:08:08] Jason: Here's a list of 47 ideas that aren't necessary.

[00:08:11] Caroline: Literally the best metaphor ever. That is absolutely correct.

[00:08:14] Jason: Now, the one that I did maybe last week or two weeks ago of us both holding the totes with one hand. That was a good one.

[00:08:18] Caroline: I still think about that even after you said that.

[00:08:21] Jason: You still haven't gone to the grocery store with me, though.

[00:08:24] Caroline: I thought it was a metaphor.

[00:08:25] Jason: It is, but it's also life.

[00:08:26] Caroline: I have gone to the grocery quote, unquote gone to the grocery store with you.

[00:08:30] Jason: For sure. Yeah. You sure ladies first? I don't... I don't want to be... 

[00:08:34] Caroline: Yeah, ladies tell the story first.

[00:08:35] Jason: Okay, great. All right, I'm gonna start with an easy win, because we actually talked about this before we started recording, so I figured your mind was already warmed up to it. I wanted to give you, like, a soft toss here.

[00:08:44] Caroline: Okay. Toss it.

[00:08:45] Jason: So I would love for you to share with everybody, and I'm just gonna give you, like, a little keyword, because I don't want to spoil any of it, which is Yellowleaf.

[00:08:52] Caroline: Yellowleaf. Okay, good. Yes. She was ready for this one.

[00:08:56] Jason: Yeah. 

[00:08:57] Caroline: This is one of those stories and kind of blips on my entrepreneurial journey that I forget to tell people about, but to give you the punchline and then to, you know, do a little reverse. The first start to finish brand identity design that I did as a freelance designer who didn't go to school for design, who's just completely self taught. First front to back brand identity I designed was for a company called Yellowleaf Hammock. Hammocks. Yellowleaf Hammocks. And they have since gone on to, like, create this amazing brand of hammocks. They've gone on Shark Tank, where they got some crazy deals. I didn't look up how much investment they got, but... And it's so cool to see their journey as a business evolve to the place now where they're this, like, really well known brand. And they still, to this day, use basically my... My basic brand identity and my logo that I redesigned for them. So that's the punchline, which is very cool. So I... The founder, Rachel, co founder. It's her and her now husband, Joe. So Joe and Rachel, at the time, they were just dating. They were living in San Francisco. And Rachel, I think, put on Facebook. We started this business. We're looking to redesign the brand.

[00:10:11] Jason: Did you say what year this was?

[00:10:12] Caroline: This is right when I started Made Vibrant. So it was probably 2014.

[00:10:17] Jason: Yeah.

[00:10:17] Caroline: And she's like, hey, does anyone know, like, a freelance designer who can do a brand redesign? I, at this point, the only reason that people know I'm, like, a designer is because I had created, like, a portfolio site 'cause I wanted to get into brand design. But again, I'm self taught. I'm doing kind of hand lettering. I'm sharing stuff on Instagram and Facebook. I think I had started my newsletter at that point. So this is a huge lesson in just, like, putting content out there, because people don't know you can do something unless you show them. And again, I didn't even know if I could, but I was getting into brand design. I mean, my degree is in advertising, so I had some background in branding. And so a friend of my sorority sister. No, the sister of my sorority sister, who I knew from college, who was a friend, she was connected to Rachel on Facebook, and so she put my name out there and said, hey, you're looking for a designer. I follow, you know, a friend of my sister's on Instagram and Facebook, and she does branding and design, and you should reach out to her. So that's when Rachel reached out to me. She was looking at a couple of other designers. We had this call. I remember being so nervous for the call because, you know, you're kind of in this weird spot where it's like, you know, you can do it, but you're kind of having to project a confidence that you don't yet, you haven't yet earned. So I'm telling her about my process. I'm telling her about how I think about branding. Mind you, I have not created. I've just done, like, a logo here, a blog header there. Like, these are the things. And I still remember when she was like, hey, send over your... The proposal for the design, the amount, and, like, it felt like an astronomical amount. I think I charged them maybe, like, $4,000 or something.

[00:11:51] Jason: But to go from designing, like, little one off illustrations for, like, $50.

[00:11:57] Caroline: For, like, $50, it felt ridiculous. But I knew it was gonna be so much work as a complete brand identity overhaul. And so I remember. Do you remember you were doing some type of speaking event in, I don't know where we were, but I remember I had the call with them, like, the final call where they were, like, gonna make a decision, and I had to, like, step out to take the call. And I was so... My heart was racing so hard.

[00:12:18] Jason: What a businesswoman you are.

[00:12:19] Caroline: And they decided to go with me, and it was such a fun process, and, like, Rachel was... I was mainly working with Rachel. She was such a good, like, collaborator. She had a vision for what she wanted. I went through, I mean, hundreds of, like, logo designs.

[00:12:32] Jason: Not because they were asking you for variations, but because you were just...

[00:12:36] Caroline: I just wanted to get it right, you know? And... And so, yeah, so... And I learned a lot in that project. I learned, like, boy, you want to talk about scope creep? I had no idea about how to, like, keep that from happening.

[00:12:48] Jason: What you charged $4,000 for, you probably spent $20,000 worth of effort into it.

[00:12:53] Caroline: Yeah. And they were like, oh, can you do some stuff for the website? I was like, absolutely. Teach myself website. Oh, can you do some illustrations to put on the website? Absolutely. Teach myself how to vectorize illustrations. Like, oh, can you create a brand guidelines guide? Created it in Photoshop, realized that was the absolute worst program. The file was enormous. Had to figure out InDesign, like, 48 hours before it's due so that I could... Anyway... long, like, all those things, but it is so fun. Like, years later, seeing...

[00:13:17] Jason: Ten years later.

[00:13:18] Caroline: Ten years later, I pop in and I look at their journey and I see, like, their website still has, excuse me, their website still has the color palette that I chose for them. They still use the logo that I created for them. They still use the basic, like, font treatments that I gave them. And it is so gratifying to be like, wow. Something that I created actually set this business up for success.

[00:13:39] Jason: Yeah. Just to close the loop on the Shark Take, Shark Tank funding that they accepted a $1 million investment for 25% of the company. So they valued the company on Shark Tank for $4 million, and one of the sharks invested $1 million and took 25% of the company.

[00:14:00] Caroline: That's cool. I mean, it's cool if that's what you want.

[00:14:03] Jason: Yeah, for sure.

[00:14:03] Caroline: I think it is cool.

[00:14:04] Jason: And it is fun. Yeah. I was just looking at their website just to like, because I haven't looked at it in years either. And it is the exact same, you know, logo, font. Like, you know, the brand elements like that. It holds up, like, ten years later.

[00:14:17] Caroline: They have done an incredible job of taking those first brand guidelines and, like, running with it.

[00:14:22] Jason: Exactly.

[00:14:22] Caroline: For ten years.

[00:14:23] Jason: Yeah, and, like, not having to redo it, not having to, like, rethink everything. Like, it... It's definitely, definitely stood the test of time. So, yeah, that was a very fun one.

[00:14:31] Caroline: I forgot to talk about that. I forget to share old, like, branding work that I've done. But I did have a previous life as a designer, and I carved out my own little space. And that's why when we have designers that come into our program, I just, I have a soft spot for designers because I think a lot of times people think you have to go to design school or you have to have all these fancy credentials, and it's like, if you have a talent and you have a skill and you have the grit to be able to put it together, all it really takes is believing in yourself and getting confidence and taking on projects and just learning as you go and you make mistakes, and that's okay. But...

[00:15:07] Jason: I think the biggest lesson, too, is just like, you never know who you're connected to. And we talk about that all the time. Like, my favorite phrase is, like, you never know who you know knows.

[00:15:15] Caroline: Yes.

[00:15:16] Jason: You never know. So it's just a matter of, like, continuing to, like, put stuff out there, even if you only have 20 people that you're connected to on Facebook or Instagram or whatever. Like, you just never know who those people know.

[00:15:26] Caroline: And people will not know what you're capable of unless you show them.

[00:15:30] Jason: Yeah.

[00:15:30] Caroline: So you have to show them before they know you're capable.

[00:15:33] Jason: All right, so that's your first story, which gave you plenty of time while you were telling it to also think of the first thing you wanted to ask me to share.

[00:15:40] Caroline: So mine is only kind of business related, but I just think that we don't talk like, we've never really talked about it that much, but it reminded me 'cause the other day we were doing, like, an SEO audit, and we still have this one blog post that is not... Is not related to our business at all, but it still brings, like, a considerable amount of traffic. And that is your 90 day challenge. And so I want you to talk about your decision to do a 90 day challenge. What prompted that?

[00:16:06] Jason: Yeah.

[00:16:07] Caroline: Didn't you have a sponsor? Okay, I want you to talk about how you monetized that.

[00:16:11] Jason: Later came to find out they were an MLM company, but we can talk about that, but not like one of the terrible ones, which is...

[00:16:16] Caroline: Okay, but still not great.

[00:16:18] Jason: I didn't know at the time. I don't even necessarily know if they knew at the time. Yeah.

[00:16:22] Caroline: Okay.

[00:16:22] Jason: Cool.

[00:16:22] Caroline: But I want you to tell that and, yeah, go ahead.

[00:16:25] Jason: All right, so funny enough, that was twelve years ago, so when I... The day I turned, well, it was actually probably like...

[00:16:31] Caroline: They're still trying to figure out that MLMs are bad just now, twelve years later.

[00:16:35] Jason: Absolutely. It was probably actually like a month before my 30th birthday, which was May 15, 2012. That was like really the hardest part of my entrepreneurial life because IWearYourShirt was trending down. Um, I had to let go of all of the employees, basically, except for you and then Sean, the other guy that was there in Jacksonville with us. And I had gained a bunch of weight. Like, before I started IWearYourShirt, I was a very fit person. I was playing basketball all the time. Like, I was in fantastic shape. So I ended up gaining like 40 to 50 pounds. I could not sleep. I just... I literally got to, like, the worst health point in my life. And listen, I know people listening to this, it's worse than that for some people. And I'm not trying to make this out to be it was very bad in comparison to other people. I'm just saying, for me, for myself, it was the worst I'd ever felt. Yeah. And I felt terrible. That was really the point. It was like, I feel horrendous all the time and just had really bad habits. And so I was just like, I just... I'm the type of person, like, I've got to rip the band aid off and do it. And as with any of these things, I'm like, okay, as soon as I flip the switch, I'm like, all right, I'm going to do it. Like, there's no, like, you know, faffing about and doing it.

[00:17:38] Caroline: And when you say do it, what in your head was like, I'm going to do it?

[00:17:42] Jason: Yeah. My, so my thought was, um, this is even before, like, 90 day challenges weren't a thing. Like, this wasn't even, like, a thing that you saw very much. The only thing that I thought was at the time, P90X existed.

[00:17:55] Caroline: Yes.

[00:17:55] Jason: And so I was like, that takes 90 days.

[00:17:57] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:17:57] Jason: I'm not gonna do P90X because that just seems maybe too much. I just wanted to be like, what? What could I do in 90 days? So that was just my thought, was like, what could I do? Then my immediate next thought, because I was doing the IWearYourShirt thing, was like, well, could someone sponsor this? So, like, I could actually, like, make some money while doing this.

[00:18:12] Caroline: Again, I just want to pause because that twelve, you know, what is it? Twelve years later? Twelve years later, when we are very familiar with people doing these challenges on YouTube, we are very familiar with people getting some type of sponsorship to, like, a partner to, like, partner with me on this sponsored video of me doing some type of fitness challenge or any type of challenge, really. But, boy, you were early, babe.

[00:18:33] Jason: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, there was...

[00:18:34] Caroline: You were always early.

[00:18:34] Jason: There was no one getting sponsored for anything like this. So, yeah, I actually, I mean, thankfully, I had an email list of people who had paid for IWearYourShirt days. So I pitched this out there and I think I actually got a handful of people that were interested, but what I wanted was one that felt like, related to the fitness part of it. And so it was a supplement company. I'm not going to name them. If you go back and watch the videos, you can find out who it is. But I was like, okay, this is a good fit because I know I'm going to need to take some protein shakes or something while I'm doing this. But then when I think I ended up selling, it was like, $5,000 for, like, the 90 day challenge. I would include it in videos and, like, whatever. But what I realized when, when they basically, like, paid the money up front, I was like, you know what? I should take this one step further. I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:19:16] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:19:16] Jason: I'm actually going to hire a, like, a nutrition coach or, like, a whatever. And funny enough, the person that I hired, do you remember how I found him?

[00:19:23] Caroline: I do.

[00:19:24] Jason: My mom sat next to him on a flight.

[00:19:26] Caroline: Yep.

[00:19:27] Jason: And he literally unwrapped in aluminum foil a boiled sweet potato, and that's what he ate on the plane. And my mom was like, what is happening here? Why did you...? Number one, why did you bring this? That made it through security? Two, what are you doing? Like, and basically went on to tell my mom, like, he was a personal trainer and, like, a fitness enthusiast, and actually, like, it ended up being a competitive bodybuilder.

[00:19:46] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:19:47] Jason: And so my, my mom literally, like, told me about this guy. I connected with him on Facebook. This is back in the Facebook days. So two years before your Yellowleaf Hammocks, we were rampant on Facebook. And so I reached out to Fadi Maloof was his name. And I was like, hey, you sat next to my mom on a plane and ate a sweet potato, and it blew her mind. I am someone who used to be healthy. I'm not healthy anymore. And I really want to get back on track. Can you help me build a plan? And I think he ended up charging me, like, not that much money. So I ended up making money on this challenge, but he wrote out, like, a full nutrition plan for me for the 90 days, and it basically, like, changed every month. But it was, like, the same foods, but it was very not, not, like, so restrictive. But it was pretty restrictive. It was just like...

[00:20:23] Caroline: It was like, oh, you're trying to do a thing.

[00:20:25] Jason: Exactly. And I told him when he started, he was like, how serious do you want to be? And I was like, you know what? I've never really taken this seriously, and I do want to, like, correct... course correct a lot of this. Let me have it, like...

[00:20:33] Caroline: Yeah, which is difficult, right? Because you don't want to create, like, an unsustainable lifestyle for yourself. But you knew yourself well enough to know I need to go to sort of a little bit not an extreme, like, oh, I'm not eating, or I'm not...

[00:20:45] Jason: And actually...

[00:20:45] Caroline: I'm going to, like, eat really clean.

[00:20:47] Jason: The funny part about it. So before I started the challenge, literally what our daily eating looked like was, like, I would eat something for breakfast that was just easy, like, literally a bowl of cereal or something like that. For lunch, we would probably go to Chipotle, Chick-fil-A, like, some type of, like, fast food restaurant. And for dinner, we, like, might make something with a vegetable, but it was always just like, you cobbled something together or whatever. So I ate three meals a day. I probably ate in total, like, 1800 calories. Like, it actually wasn't that many calories, but it was all the wrong food. Like, it just you... I wasn't getting enough nutrition from the food. So I actually remember when I started eating his plan, it felt like I was eating, like, an enormous mound of food. It was so much vegetables, a ton of protein, but a bunch of fats as well. Like, good fats.

[00:21:29] Caroline: It's funny to look back and think how much of an impact that probably had on what we now as a family eat and our understanding of nutrition. And I think just those things make more of an impact and have ripple effects for years to come than you even realize.

[00:21:43] Jason: Yeah.

[00:21:43] Caroline: Because remember, that's when we started eating, like, oh, let's do, like, roasted broccoli and, like, meatballs. Or let's, like, we just started, like, eating more whole foods, I would say.

[00:21:51] Jason: Exactly. And I think that's... That was really the big change was, like, you went from buying, like, something that was frozen that you would just heat up, right. To, like, oh, let me get something green that's fresh, some type of protein, if that's the kind of meal we were eating. And so, anyway, I embarked on the 90 day challenge. I got my pre challenge pictures taken by you with a little point and shoot camera in our kitchen. I went and got my body fat tested at, like, a little local place. And then I, for the first 30 days, it was actually very easy because, uh, basically what Fadi was saying, this is what most people say in a 30 day challenge is like, if you try and go zero to hero.

[00:22:23] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:22:23] Jason: You'll never stay with it. So he was like, I don't actually care what you do exercise wise. I just want 20 minutes a day something. You go to the gym, you could go for a walk, you could do some jumping jacks in the house. That's all I want you to do. And actually, in the first 30 days, I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think I lost, like, 20 pounds in the first 30 days.

[00:22:41] Caroline: Just by...?

[00:22:41] Jason: Just by that. And then also the eating was just... I just ate more good food is what it was. And I obviously cut out, like, all the eating out, but, yeah, by the end of the challenge, I ended up losing a total of 44 pounds. I think it was 21% body fat. The best I've ever looked with my shirt off. The end, I did push a little bit harder at the end, if you remember.

[00:23:00] Caroline: Yeah, I was just going to tell you. I remember so distinctly that those last two weeks or whatever it was, and you bumped it up to doing two a days and two workouts a day. And the one would be a morning swim.

[00:23:11] Jason: Yeah. And I hate swimming.

[00:23:13] Caroline: And it would be freezing cold. We would go to the, we had a pool in our neighborhood, and we would go to the neighborhood pool, and you would swim. And maybe I joined you for, like, four of the days, and I was just like, hey, man, I can't do this.

[00:23:24] Jason: I also got to a point where I had been doing, like, nightly treadmill... inclined treadmill walks.

[00:23:29] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:23:30] Jason: And I... And, like, this wasn't even a directive from him, but I was like, I think I can hit 1000 calories burned on the treadmill if I push it. And what took me over the top was I would watch Food Network, and I felt like... I literally felt like a carrot. Like, it was a carrot hanging off the treadmill because I'm just, like, watching food. I was like, okay, in the next... At the end of these 30 days, like, I'm gonna be able to eat some of these things again. So it was a very, very, like, life changing experience because I think it, like, reset all of my habits, which was really helpful.

[00:23:54] Caroline: Yes, of course. It was so restrictive that, like, I remember the two months after.

[00:23:59] Jason: Yeah, you... I mean, I... I see saw it quite heavily.

[00:24:02] Caroline: Exactly. But I do think it did instill a lot of really good, like, just life habits that we still use to this day. It also got us into, like, you know, we were doing basketball workouts, and, like, it got me into kind of, like...

[00:24:14] Jason: Playing tennis and...

[00:24:15] Caroline: I did not grow up in a family where, like, physical activity was prioritized. Like, I played sports, but it was never, like, this is how you take care of your physical health. And this is how... like, I just... it was never a thought. And so I credit you a lot with, like, since we met when I was so young. Like, you kind of formulated my adult idea of just taking care of yourself and what it looks like to take time out of your day to go, like, exercise your body and...

[00:24:43] Jason: It's a good thing I wasn't a slop.

[00:24:44] Caroline: A slop. And this is what we call me when I just...

[00:24:50] Jason: When you're not brushing your teeth.

[00:24:51] Caroline: When I nestle, when I'm too busy to brush my teeth, and I nestle in our little corner of our couch, which I call the nest. We call it slop. Slop.

[00:24:57] Jason: Just a slop because it's like a pile of...

[00:24:59] Caroline: And it's also just, like, worse than a slob. It's like, slop. Wait, there was one other. Well, first of all, I do think another, like, story thread from the first one as well is the whole, I don't think that your personal trainer thought, like, oh, by opening this sweet potato on an airplane, I could get a potential client.

[00:25:19] Jason: Yeah, exactly.

[00:25:20] Caroline: But the second that your mom goes, what's the story? I bet he had some version of an elevator pitch to be ready to be like, this is what I do. And that leads to you, you know, which I think is cool. Oh, the fun kind of, like, wrap up to that is for, like, five years after you posted the blog post of your before and after photos, any and all fitness, like, bros on the Internet would just rip Jason's after photo and use that, like, in their ads, in their, like, promoting, in their posts.

[00:25:50] Jason: I got messages from people all the time, like, hey, did you see you're showing up on, like, beastmode.com? Like, like, are you affiliate? I'm like, no, I'm not affiliate. So I would have to, like, send them. I'd be like, hey, can you take my photo down? Like, I don't use your products. I don't know. So, yeah, that was very funny.

[00:26:02] Caroline: That was for, like, years. People were like, hey, I just saw this, like, weird Facebook ad for, like, an MLM on Facebook, and it's your abs.

[00:26:08] Jason: Are you selling these pills? And, like, no, I am not. No, I don't take those pills. If you want to relive that memory, you can go to wanderingaimfully.com/90. That post still exists. You can marvel at my after photos. I do not look like that anymore. There was a spray tan that happened, which we don't need to talk about. There was, like, a final three days.

[00:26:27] Caroline: The only time that we've ever. We did it together. We went for spray tan, and we went to Target afterwards. And also, like, something about this spray tan, like, activated, like, way darker for me than it did for you. And we're walking through Target, and it's getting darker and darker. It is like, oh, my God, like...

[00:26:44] Jason: Also, the fluorescent lights in Target did not help.

[00:26:46] Caroline: We have to go, like, you don't look appropriate for...

[00:26:49] Jason: You look like an orange alien.

[00:26:50] Caroline: Yeah, we gotta go.

[00:26:52] Jason: Okay, so that was a fun story. Way to bring that one up.

[00:26:54] Caroline: Yep.

[00:26:54] Jason: All right. My second one for you was the Brit & Co course.

[00:26:59] Caroline: Okay. So this is another little blip in my history that I forget, but this was about the time I'm trying to remember. May. Yes. I had done Better Branding Course already, so I had already launched, like, probably one or two courses under Made Vibrant. So this was my first solo business. For those of you who are maybe new to the podcast and think that Jason and I have worked together forever, we haven't. There was a couple of years there where I was doing my own thing, he was doing his own thing, and I had created a branding course, I had created a lettering course, and somehow the brand, Brit & Co, which in the, like, 2014 to 2016...

[00:27:34] Jason: Really a hot moment.

[00:27:35] Caroline: They were the hot, like, creative for mostly women kind of company out there, and they were really trying to build out their course roster. They had launched courses under their big brand and, and that was kind of like a side revenue. So they were a big media company, but they were trying to do courses as well. And so they reached out to me and said, hey, would you come collaborate and do a course with us? Now, I still remember a couple of things about that experience is I just remember this anxiety at that point in my career when I would get these offers for, like, jobs or collaborations. And, you know, I think nowadays a lot of creators who are, like, in the influencer space have, like, managers who manage the, like, negotiations and, like, how much, what's the rate and, like, all of that stuff. A lot of people have managers. Obviously, back then, no one was even being an influencer. And I'm not saying I was, but I'm just saying it would have been nice to have a person who could have handled all of the back and forth of, like, what's my percentage of the, of the core sales and blah, blah, blah. And I forget what the... I definitely don't, I don't... Maybe I did, for a time period get a percentage of sales or something.

[00:28:39] Jason: Yeah, I think you did, because I remember us getting, like...

[00:28:41] Caroline: A little... Checks here and there. Yeah. But it was mainly, um. But anyway, I just felt so excited that they had reached out to me to do this, and I felt so kind of, like, special, of like, oh, I've kind of hit the map or whatever. And the fact that they even know who I am, right? You kind of go into it with this whole, like, imposter syndrome a little bit.

[00:29:00] Jason: Of course. 

[00:29:01] Caroline: But then you realize, you go, they flew me up to San Francisco 'cause that's where their headquarters is. And in your brain, you think of it like this, like, big, corporate, beautiful office and whatever. And I'm not saying it wasn't like, it definitely was like a startup office or whatever, but the place where they recorded the courses was like an off site auxiliary office. So you go on their Instagram and you can see their beautiful office where they film all their content, and they take these photos, and it's bloggers and this whole creative thing. And I was so excited to just be around creative people in this big company environment, but they fly me up there and I'm so nervous. I go to a rehearsal day, basically, and they're like, hey, show up at this place. So I have to, like, figure out, like, Uber in San Francisco by myself in 2014 or whatever. And I get to their office, and it's just this, like, kind of like one room, like storage. Like, it's just like the...

[00:29:55] Jason: It's the expectations versus the reality.

[00:29:55] Caroline: Yeah, totally. And it's like the forgotten little brother studio of the, like, main headquarters office. And the per... The people that I was working with there were, like, perfectly lovely, but they were... We were all just, like, kids trying to, like, figure out. And I think this is a classic thing of, you think it's a big company. You think people know more than you do. You think that they're, like, so much further along in their career, and you kind of get there and you're just like, oh, no. Like, we're all just figuring it out.

[00:30:19] Jason: Yeah, totally.

[00:30:19] Caroline: I really had this imposter feeling the whole time, and then when I got there, I was like, oh, no, we're all imposters, you know?

[00:30:24] Jason: Do you remember, like, how big their Instagram following was at that time?

[00:30:27] Caroline: No idea. No, no idea.

[00:30:29] Jason: 20,000 followers?

[00:30:30] Caroline: No. More.

[00:30:31] Jason: Oh, you know more than that?

[00:30:32] Caroline: Oh, yeah, yeah, no, it was. They were like a big brand. A big, big brand. They had... They were venture backed.

[00:30:37] Jason: Ah, interesting.

[00:30:37] Caroline: They were a venture backed company, a media company, and yeah. And so I go there, I do the rehearsal. The one thing I do distinctly remember about that experience is I was so anxious because you have to film the course in one day, and you just have, like, slides. Like, you don't have a... I think they did have, like, a... some type of teleprompter thing, but I had never done that before. It's not scripted, but they're sort of like...

[00:31:02] Jason: Did you create...? You created...

[00:31:03] Caroline: I created the curriculum. I created the course, which this is, like, the brilliant thing on their side, right, is they... They pick people. They're just excited to raise their... To be able to put Brit & Co on their website or whatever. They... And so then they create the whole curriculum. Then they just get the course sales, you know, it's kind of a brilliant idea, but the night they put me up in this hotel, this little boutique hotel that was really cool, actually, in San Francisco, and I'm by myself, and I am so nervous about, like, not messing up the next day. I don't sleep at all. Like, the anxiety was, like, through the roof. And I look back now and I'm like, what was I afraid of? But it's just... you're....

[00:31:42] Jason: You've never done that before.

[00:31:44] Caroline: Never done it before. You're early in your career. I mean, I'm 24 at the time or something, and I just was like, this is my big break, you know? And you look back and you're like, it was... It was not my big break. It was not my big break.

[00:31:57] Jason: It was a break.

[00:31:58] Caroline: It was a break.

[00:31:59] Jason: Yeah.

[00:31:59] Caroline: And... But I will say that for years after that experience, oh, I did make sure to request, by the way, I do the whole thing. I do the course. I think it goes really well. And they were like, okay, like, thanks. Like, see you later. And I was like, um, hey, can we... Can we go over to the main office? Like, I had come there to have a Brit & Co experience.

[00:32:18] Jason: Yeah.

[00:32:19] Caroline: And I was like, hey, can we just go to the main office? And can you, like, get me just, like, a look around? And I'm so glad I asked for that. Oh, yeah, of course. I would have gone to San Francisco and left being, like, in a freaking break room. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't even get the full experience, so I'm glad I asked for that. And it was cool to see, like, their operation and kind of, like, especially a media company. Like, it does have a cool, creative energy to it because people are just... They had, like, a test kitchen, and they have a thing where people are taking photos and coming up with crafts. They were really big into the DIY space, too. So, like, people are just making DIY content and stuff, which was so fun, and that part was really cool. But the main takeaways from that experience were extreme anxiety, but also really good for my imposter syndrome because it wasn't that big of a deal. I did get my hair and makeup done by a professional, which felt really exciting. 

[00:33:07] Jason: You did. You did.

[00:33:09] Caroline: And for a while after that, people came through that course. So it actually was a really good business move for me, is they would find me through their course and upgrade to Better Branding Course or something.

[00:33:19] Jason: Or sign up for the Made Vibrant newsletter or things like that.

[00:33:22] Caroline: So it was a good... It was a nice little step up in my creative journey.

[00:33:26] Jason: Yeah, it's kind of funny 'cause it's... it's one of those things where it's like, you know, I think people listening to this might glamorize some of these types of experiences, but it's like, when you hear people actually talk about it, you're like, it's not as glamorous as we all build it up to be.

[00:33:39] Caroline: I'm trying to think, actually, because almost all of my quote unquote glamorous moments.

[00:33:45] Jason: That's what I'm saying.

[00:33:46] Caroline: Are not glamorous.

[00:33:46] Jason: That's what I'm saying.

[00:33:47] Caroline: And so I'm trying to think have... This is just a quick pause in our storytelling, but is there any, like, quote unquote like, cool thing that we got to do or glamorous thing that we got to do that you feel like lived up to the glamour? Where you were like, whoa, this is cool.

[00:34:00] Jason: I think the MSC cruises thing that I got to do with IWearYourShirt is probably the only one because it was a cruise ship, so it's kind of hard for that not to be cool.

[00:34:07] Caroline: Yeah. 

[00:34:08] Jason: I think that's the only one where I'm like...

[00:34:10] Caroline: So you did a sponsored cruise. They put you up.

[00:34:11] Jason: Exactly.

[00:34:12] Caroline: Yeah, but I think was... okay. So that. What felt glamorous about that, though?

[00:34:17] Jason: Well, it just like, like, I was basically, like, the celebrity. Like, Suzanne Summers was the show. Like, she was like, yeah, but, like, I was the person who, like, I walked around in, like, an embassy cruises, like, outfit for a day.

[00:34:29] Caroline: So you're like the mascot.

[00:34:30] Jason: And, like, I, I was like the mascot, but it was also, like, I was like, the cool mascot. It was like, just like, it was like people wanted to take pictures with me. People... I mean, I guess that's what you do, the mascot, so... But it was just...

[00:34:39] Caroline: Like... It's not like it was a mascot. It was just like, it was just like, okay, did I have a 1 minute choreographed dance routine? Yes.

[00:34:46] Jason: When I took the squirrel head off, I felt a little bit more like myself, but no. Yeah, I guess I was a mascot, but it was also... It just felt very fun. Like, all of it felt, like, grand and big and exciting and unique. But there are so many other, like, stories that I have with working with big brands.

[00:35:01] Caroline: I do remember that when you wore a shirt for the JW Marriott?

[00:35:07] Jason: Yeah.

[00:35:08] Caroline: And we went to Grand Rapids, and they put you up in, like, the... the top suite.

[00:35:12] Jason: It was like the penthouse suite.

[00:35:12] Caroline: The penthouse suite.

[00:35:12] Jason: Yeah.

[00:35:12] Caroline: That was a moment where I was like, oh, this lives up to the hype, like...

[00:35:18] Jason: Yeah. And then you see, like, you know, five to seven years later, like, travel influencers are a thing. And it's like, then you see the, like, I'm flying Emirates, like, ultimate diamond class flights. It's like, yeah, that was the thing that didn't exist.

[00:35:30] Caroline: Do you remember when we were in the suite and you had to film the video for the shirt of the day, and they were like, oh, we could take you up to the helicopter pad.

[00:35:37] Jason: Yes.

[00:35:38] Caroline: And we were like, what?

[00:35:39] Jason: I could do what?

[00:35:40] Caroline: They took us. They had a helicopter pad, a helipad on the top of the hotel, and there were dance... Dance models, dancers there. There were, like, two women who were some type of model dancer there and the guy who was, like, coordinating everything. I think he was, like, the social media coordinator for the hotel. He was like, oh, yeah. I just, like, thought that maybe you'd need some.

[00:35:59] Jason: Backup dancers. 

[00:36:00] Caroline: Are we filming a music video? Like, I don't understand.

[00:36:04] Jason: Missed opportunity.

[00:36:05] Caroline: He's like, just for photos and stuff. And so we took photos on the helipad, and I just was like, what are we doing?

[00:36:11] Jason: Should have taken my squirrel hat and done it. 

[00:36:13] Caroline: Yeah. So that was...

[00:36:14] Jason: All right. Well, the Brit & Co one's great, and I think that's a fun one for people to hear about if they haven't heard before. All right, what's my second one?

[00:36:20] Caroline: Okay, I want to hear about... And I actually haven't heard this story in a long time because you kind of, like, glaze over it in interviews. But I want to hear the story back in IWearYourShirt, where you got some type of PR thing where someone followed you around in Times Square wearing t shirts.

[00:36:39] Jason: Oh, well, this was the Japanese... You're talking about the Japanese news crew?

[00:36:44] Caroline: Am I?

[00:36:44] Jason: Yeah. Okay, sure. Okay, so this is... This... yeah, this is the second year of IWearYourShirt. So it just to set the stage. 2009 was the first year of IWearYourShirt. It was just me wearing a shirt. 2010... 

[00:36:56] Caroline: Do you want to give people, in case they're new to the podcast, the quick thirty-second version of what IWearYourShirt was?

[00:37:01] Jason: It sounds better when you do it.

[00:37:02] Caroline: Okay. From 2008 to 2013, Jason started a company called IWearYourShirt. And every day of the year, he wore a t shirt with a company's logo on it. And during that day, he would create a YouTube video. He would post about it on social media. Think of your modern day sponsored brand content influencer. But 15 years ago.

[00:37:23] Jason: Exactly.

[00:37:23] Caroline: And so he would create content online. And the kicker of IWearYourShirt is that it was basically a dollar per day, but the price increased every single day. So January 1 was $1, January 2 was $2, January 3 was $3, etcetera. And that was his business. And how he made money was he was just a walking billboard.

[00:37:42] Jason: Yeah. The first year, it made $66,795 is the total when you add all the days up.

[00:37:47] Caroline: Yep.

[00:37:47] Jason: So you're like, oh, $1 on the first day. It's not going to add up to anything. Well, by the end, when it's 365, it adds up. So the... the first year sold out pretty quickly. It had a lot of grunt work in the beginning to, like, actually get it going, but then once it got going, like, it picked up some steam, and then, like, it just kind of had its own little viral moment. So in 2010 was kind of like, there was a second shirt wearer who lived in California, we were living in Florida at the time. And 2010 was really, like, everybody had started to hear about this, and then it was just kind of, like, getting a life of its own. So just, like, random things were happening. I was getting asked to go be on a cruise ship, and, like, literally launch the cruise ship was, like, that platform. I helped launch Angry Birds. I helped launch Shopify. Like, just these... like, Starbucks was like, we're opening a new store. Go to New York, and, like, do it. But so I ended up getting an email from a news... I don't even know the news outlet in Japan that this was from. It was in Tokyo. I'm assuming it was one of the bigger ones because they basically were like, hey, we will pay for you to go to New York City, Times Square, and we will have a crew that will follow you around. And we just want to do a story about IWearYourShirt. We'll pay for the flight, we'll pay for the hotel. We'll pay, like, a daily stipend. I think it was, like, a $1,000 or something. And, like, we just want to record it for a day. And when I say that these were the type of opportunities that they weren't, like, happening every day, but they were happening, like, pretty often.

[00:39:06] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:39:06] Jason: It was pretty wild. But it was also, like, at that moment, I was getting so busy because there were... I was getting, like, 500 emails a day. And then also, every day I was having to film and upload a YouTube video and edit, hosted a live show, manage just, like, posting on social and, like, all the things. I'm also trying to grow this company with another person who's also wearing a shirt. So it was, like, very, very busy and chaotic. But this was one where I was like, I can't say no to this. This just sounds amazing. Also, the person that I was emailing, they were emailing in English. So I was like, okay, great. My expectation is I'm going to show up in Times Square. I'm going to meet someone who speaks English that represents this Japanese news channel. So I get on my flight. I have, I just, like, a backpack because I'm literally going overnight, and then I'm coming back because we're so busy, and I just have to get back. So I land in New York. They had a car waiting for me, a little guy with a sign, which is great. It was the first time, I think, I'd ever experienced that. I get in the car from, like, LaGuardia or whatever, get taken to Times Square. I get dropped off at the hotel, and I get... I have an email waiting for me when I, like, get to the hotel and, like, log into my email. It's like, oh, Jason, you'll meet, like, I can't remember the person's name, but it was Japanese name. So I'm like, okay, again, like, I think this person's gonna speak English because I'm emailing someone who speaks English. I go down to the lobby. There is a camera person, a sound person, and then who I'm guessing is the producer.

[00:40:18] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:40:19] Jason: All of them are Japanese.

[00:40:19] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:40:20] Jason: None of them speak English.

[00:40:21] Caroline: Amazing.

[00:40:22] Jason: So literally, through, like, hand gestures.

[00:40:25] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:40:26] Jason: And back and forth. What I gathered was they weren't going to record them asking me anything. They just wanted to follow me.

[00:40:33] Caroline: They just wanted...

[00:40:34] Jason: They wanted b roll of me in Times Square. So I basically, like, you know, again...

[00:40:40] Caroline: It must have been a big news outlet, because to pay a three person...

[00:40:44] Jason: Three person crew.

[00:40:45] Caroline: To travel across the world to get b roll of you.

[00:40:47] Jason: I'm guessing they were probably based in New York, and they did a lot of, like... 

[00:40:50] Caroline: Maybe, maybe.

[00:40:50] Jason: I don't know.

[00:40:52] Caroline: But only speaking Japanese.

[00:40:53] Jason: I don't know. But anyway, so I think I took, like, a 7:00 a.m. flight. So I was there at, like, you know, 10:00 a.m. So we started at 10:00 a.m. I literally, like, put my backpack down in my room and then met up with them and then kind of figured out, like, oh, they're not gonna ask me anything, so I'm just gonna have to, like, go about my day with what I'm doing. So I was like, all right, well, I'm just gonna live my day. So I literally had, like, one of the, like, selfie sticks with a little flip cam was the camera that I was using at the time. So I was... I walked through Times Square, and that was never the shtick of Irish. Shirt was like, let me go be in a busy place. It was just like, I'm on the Internet, and, like, people can find me there. But this is... You're in New York, so you're gonna do that. So I remember walking around and, like, there were a couple hilarious moments where I'm trying to film myself, but then, like, the camera guy ends up being behind me, and he's, like, scurrying around to get out of the shot. But then I'm also trying to get him in the shot, because it's just funny that I'm having this crew following around. Then, you know, you're in New York City. You're in Times Square. Again. IWearYourShirt is, like, hit its viral moment. So, like, there are a couple people who've come to me. They're like, are you the shirt guy?

[00:41:53] Caroline: Oh, that. I wrote that down. Jace, I wanted to ask you if you remember the first time that you got recognized.

[00:41:58] Jason: Ooh. I mean, it was...

[00:42:00] Caroline: Like, anything that.

[00:42:00] Jason: Was definitely in Jacksonville where we lived. Like, that's where it started was, like, we would go to literally, like, Chipotle when I was having terrible eating habits, and someone would be like, t shirt guy? And I'd be like, yeah, that's me.

[00:42:11] Caroline: That. Yeah, I remember now. The first year that we were dating, when I was living in Durham. And do you remember, like, we would just go to a restaurant.

[00:42:17] Jason: Yeah.

[00:42:17] Caroline: And we would be walking out and somebody be like, are you the t shirt guy?

[00:42:20] Jason: Yeah.

[00:42:20] Caroline: And I just remember being like...

[00:42:22] Jason: And I wasn't always filming myself, so it wasn't always, like, obvious.

[00:42:25] Caroline: But I guess you are a pretty recognizable person.

[00:42:27] Jason: Yeah, I'm a big guy, but, yeah. So just to wrap up the, the New York story. So I finished, like, filming out and about, we go back to the hotel. They just filmed me, like, literally working on my laptop, like, editing the video. I asked them if they want to go to lunch together, and they're like, yeah, they don't eat a thing. I thought we were gonna eat together. It's just me eating sadly by myself with the crew.

[00:42:46] Caroline: You're going, like, hey, let's go to the next location.

[00:42:49] Jason: Yeah. And so, like, I was like, are you guys gonna order? No. Literally 6 hours we were together and we were filming. They didn't eat a thing. They didn't drink anything. Like, just, like, worked, like, super hard at this thing. I think the best part of this entire story. So I... We finished the day. Say goodbye. They were so nice. They were so, by the end of it, we were just, like, joking and, like, again, didn't speak the same language.

[00:43:12] Caroline: Again. Yeah, just hand gestures.

[00:43:14] Jason: I sent an email, like, before I go to bed. That was like, hey, whatever the guy's name. I was like, you know, that was very interesting, but, like, I think they got a bunch of, like, good stuff, whatever. I get up the next day, hadn't heard back. I get on the flight, I go back home, and I think it was like four or five days. Didn't hear a thing. And then I get an email from the guy that I was emailing. He was like, oh, the story's gonna air, like, tomorrow. I'll send you a clip because obviously there's no way we can watch it. He sends me a clip. I kid you not. The story is 1 minute long. They used, like, three shots. One of me in the hotel, one of me in Times Square, one of me eating very sadly by myself at lunch. That was it. But they, I guarantee you they had 6 hours of b roll of me for a 1 minute segment. And that's like, my favorite punchline of that story.

[00:43:55] Caroline: Make it make sense.

[00:43:56] Jason: Because I'm just like, how was this worth it? Like, I do not understand.

[00:43:59] Caroline: They could have got it on your flip cam and sent them the footage.

[00:44:01] Jason: The best part about the IWearYourShirt business model, though, was that every time one of those happened, then I got, like ten sales from companies that watched those stories. I was like, they paid me to then get media to then get paid by other people. It was wild.

[00:44:13] Caroline: Yeah. That's the type of business where, like, yeah, PR is a thing. You know what I mean? That also just reminded me this isn't a full story, but you saying that reminded me of, I think it must have been 2012 or '11. Do you remember when, I think it was NBC. Not when you were on the nightly news, like that, your big news segment, but when they were going to do a feature on, like, you get paid for that or whatever. And do you remember it was Sara Haines was the host, and then she brought her cameraman slash...

[00:44:43] Jason: So that was the Today show.

[00:44:44] Caroline: Today show.

[00:44:44] Jason: She was working for the Today show at the time.

[00:44:46] Caroline: She was working for the Today show, but for those of you... like Sara, I think she's on, like, The View now or something, but she's, like, a very well known... 'cause remember, she had the show with Michael Strahan, too? She's, like, a very well known, like, NBC host, but at the time, she was just this, like, young, up and coming, like, field producer, basically. And she came to our house in, you know, Jacksonville, Florida. And I just remember her being so nice and, like, down to earth, but, like a hustler.

[00:45:12] Jason: Yeah.

[00:45:12] Caroline: Like, she was doing her job, and she was just, like... Like a well oiled machine. And I could just tell, like, I remember being like, she's gonna do something.

[00:45:21] Jason: She also had such a good personality.

[00:45:23] Caroline: Such a good personality.

[00:45:24] Jason: She just was, like...

[00:45:24] Caroline: Funny. She was, like one of those people who instantly you feel like you're friends with them because it's all their charisma. Like, she just had so much charisma, and it's just fun 'cause, like, over the years, you see her kind of, like, rise in the ranks of NBC, and, like... And I think people resonate with her because she feels like such a lovely personality, and it's just, I like being able to confirm. Can confirm Sara Haines, a lovely person.

[00:45:47] Jason: At the time. We don't know anything after that.

[00:45:48] Caroline: That's true. We don't know.

[00:45:49] Jason: All right. I think these stories are taking longer than I thought they were. So as the producer of this podcast.

[00:45:53] Caroline: We're cutting into three.

[00:45:54] Jason: We're gonna do one more story.

[00:45:55] Caroline: Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:45:56] Jason: So I would like to go with the last highlight reel moment for you that I think is very fun, which is Liz Gilbert resharing your art during your daily art project.

[00:46:04] Caroline: Oh, that's a good one, Jason. That's a good one.

[00:46:07] Jason: Now, do you remember this happened?

[00:46:09] Caroline: I remember when... Yeah, I certainly do remember.

[00:46:11] Jason: So set the stage for us of the project, the daily art project.

[00:46:15] Caroline: Well, what's funny is now that you're saying that, I'm like, was it the daily art project?

[00:46:21] Jason: Or was it just...?

[00:46:22] Caroline: Or before that?

[00:46:23] Jason: It was definitely during. Yeah.

[00:46:26] Caroline: Yeah. So, man, that's a blur. Forget, like, sometimes I just completely forget that I did that. So in... Was it 2016? Maybe? So 2016. I had just started. My early art career was in hand lettering, so I had been sharing that on Instagram and online for many years by that point of just this idea of, like, drawing letters and drawing quotes, and it was my favorite thing to do. And then in late 2015, you and I went on vacation for my birthday, and I had a dream where I was painting, like, acrylic painting.

[00:46:59] Jason: Which you'd never done before. 

[00:47:00] Caroline: Which I'd never done before and...

[00:47:01] Jason: Except for that basket of grapes that your mom kept.

[00:47:03] Caroline: Yeah, yeah, except for, like, middle school and stuff. But, you know, I hear people tell these stories about, like, weird dreams, and this is the only one I have in my entire life. It's just the most vivid dream that you can possibly imagine of, like, I could feel the paint in my dream. I could feel like... And so I woke up and was like, I think I need to paint? I don't know. And so we got... We... It was a road trip, and so we were driving back to the house, and I dropped you off at the house with our bags, and I said, I'm going to Michael's, and I'm getting paint. I didn't even unpack. I went and got painting supplies. This is when we were living in California. I unpacked everything, and I was like, oh, I'm just gonna take a couple of online courses of, like, acrylic painting and just kind of mess around. And I just fell in love with it. And then... so this was, like, the fall of that year 'cause it was... my birthday was around August. Around November, we decide that we're gonna drive across country back to Florida between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and we're gonna spend December in Florida. And I was like, I'm just gonna paint while I'm there. We basically took off from work. It was the first year that we took December off from work, and I just painted instead. I set up, like, a plastic drop cloth in this rental Airbnb. Like, old beach condo.

[00:48:09] Jason: This is before Airbnb. This was like, yeah.

[00:48:11] Caroline: Old beach condo. And I just got some paper and would paint, like, every day and fell in love with it. And I decided, like, oh, I want... Like, we always did. I'm gonna challenge... I'm gonna turn it into a challenge. And so I was like, I want it to be big. I want it to feel, like, scary. So every day of 2016, I'm gonna paint a different acrylic art piece with a different hand lettered quote because, again, like, that was where my wheelhouse was. And I just loved, like, words and poetry and things like that. So I'm gonna do a quote, and I'm gonna post on Instagram, and I'm gonna sell the prints because I wanted to also, like, I wanted it to be a hobby, but we also need to make money.

[00:48:46] Jason: Yeah.

[00:48:47] Caroline: And so... 

[00:48:48] Jason: I think I remember, too. Like, we were talking about we're, like, we've never really sold, like, a physical good. So we're like, oh, this could be fun.

[00:48:55] Caroline: And it was a fun thing to figure out. It was like, I chose a local printer. I, like, made sure the quality was good. I figured out a system with my assistant of how to take the orders and how to get them printed and how to package them up and how to ship them out. And, like, it was. It was a big challenge, but it was such a fun project. I didn't make it the full 365 days. You want to talk about, like, you know, I think around 280 is when I got burnt out on it and had to make the hard decision of, like, okay, I've done it.

[00:49:22] Jason: And I remember. I remember having those conversations because we had both at that point then done a bunch of, like, weird challenges.

[00:49:28] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:49:28] Jason: They've been, you know, whatever. And I'm coming off of the IWearYourShirt thing where I'd done it for such a long time. And I think I just remember giving you, like, just being like, hey, man, you got nothing left to prove. Like, you've done it. You know? Like, this is enough.

[00:49:39] Caroline: The thing with challenges is there does come this moment where it flips from, oh, this is something exciting and challenging and, like, it's really good that I have this constraint so that tomorrow, even if I don't feel like doing it, I'm gonna follow through and I'm gonna have the discipline. But there comes a point where it flips into I wake up, and I actually don't like this. I actually feel like I'm, you know, confined by this. It's not... it's no longer doing something good for me anymore. And that's when you actually do have to quit in order to do the best thing for yourself. So, anyway, I made it 280 days, but at one of those days in there, I had been sharing these quotes every day, and I just remember... Liz Gilbert. Yeah. Because I don't... I think it was even before stories. She shared it on her page, like, her post. And this was actually happening quite a bit with my work where people would share it. This was the era of, like, it was not easy to, like, you know, when people would, like, crop. They would screenshot your photo. They would crop it, then they wouldn't even mention you in the caption, or they would just tag you in the photo and, like, nobody clicks through the tags.

[00:50:42] Jason: Do you remember there was a big creative brand that did it the didn't give attribution?

[00:50:46] Caroline: Crayola.

[00:50:46] Jason: Okay. I wasn't gonna name them, but...

[00:50:48] Caroline: Oh, I don't care. You know, I remember Crayola shared a bunch of my stuff, too, and I was like, hey, if you could just, like, toss my handle in the caption, that would be great.

[00:50:56] Jason: That would be nice.

[00:50:57] Caroline: Yeah. But Liz Gilbert did credit me. Thank you so much. And, yeah, I mean, at the time, this was, like, the Big Magic era. Like, that book had such an impact on my creative journey, and, you know, it's just one of those moments of being like, wow, someone who you creatively really look up to has, like, seen you in this moment and acknowledged your creativity, and it just felt so cool. And the fun punchline to that story is that my book agent followed Liz Gilbert, and that is where she, from that post, discovered my page, saw that I was doing my daily art project, reached out to see if I would be interested in writing a book, and that's where my, Your Brightest Life journal book project came from.

[00:51:40] Jason: Amazing. So fun. Yeah, that's such a fun story. I love that because I don't even remember what day it was that Liz Gilbert shared your art, but it definitely wasn't, I don't think in the first, like, hundred days. I don't... I think it was like, you know, middle or later on. And I think it's like a perfect illustration of that visual of, like, the little minor cartoon where he's, like, digging in the mine, and it's like there's two paths here. You can chip away, like, you know, one or two more times and you find the diamonds, which is what's in this visual.

[00:52:07] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:52:07] Jason: Or you give up and you turn around and you were just two chips away.

[00:52:10] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:52:10] Jason: And I think it's very interesting. Like, I remember how difficult this project was for you because a daily project of any kind is very hard. A daily creative project is very, very hard. A daily creative project with some type of message is even harder.

[00:52:22] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:52:22] Jason: And so I remember there were days where it was just like, you know, we'd had a lot of things we wanted to do work wise or life wise, and it's like, you know, you kind of, like, the last thing I want to do is now paint my 137th, you know, art piece.

[00:52:33] Caroline: Yeah. It's like, I got to go to the studio, but it's my favorite thing I've ever decided to do, and I look forward to the day where I do something like that again.

[00:52:41] Jason: Yeah.

[00:52:41] Caroline: I know that the timing is going to be right where I, like, reengage my creativity in that way. It's just that right now, business is my creativity, and I'm enjoying that so much. But I do know that there's going to come a day where I do a challenge like that again, and I'm very excited for it.

[00:52:54] Jason: I also think it's very fun. Like, we... We basically, like, we kept all of those pieces, and then, you know, we would kind of sell them because you sold prints for a while, which we learned a lot of...

[00:53:03] Caroline: The originals, a lot of them didn't even have the messages on them because I would superimpose them later. And so when we were getting ready to go on our year of travel, I sold them for, like, a pay what you want.

[00:53:14] Jason: You did the fart sale. The big farts sale, which is the fine arts sale.

[00:53:18] Caroline: The un-fine art sale.

[00:53:19] Jason: Yeah.

[00:53:19] Caroline: Is what it was.

[00:53:20] Jason: We called it the fart sale behind the scenes.

[00:53:21] Caroline: Yeah. And that was a really fun project, too. And...

[00:53:24] Jason: I also...

[00:53:25] Caroline: We donated all the proceeds to Safia in Chicago, which is a mental health nonprofit organization.

[00:53:38] Jason: I remember when we were getting ready to, like, put all those up for sale, too. You're like, half of them, you're like, I am not willing to put this up for sale. I was like, you better, because you just have no idea what people like, what people want. And I know that there's a level of quality that you want to...

[00:53:49] Caroline: But it is cool now because we do have some WAIMers who send us photos, and they have the originals in their homes, and it feels very gratifying.

[00:53:56] Jason: It's very cool.

[00:53:57] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:53:57] Jason: Love that project. That was a very fun one. And I think just a big takeaway from a lot of these are just, like, there's a lot to be said that comes out of, like, challenging yourself to do something consistently for a period of time that's longer than maybe you're comfortable with that. Like, rewards come from that. Like, that effort plants a lot of seeds, and, you know, maybe it's not going to be some big, huge thing, but it might be, oh, I've learned a new skill that I never thought I was going to be able to cultivate.

[00:54:20] Caroline: I also think it's fun because we even need these reminders sometimes. But I do think when you look back over these amazing opportunities that have come or things that have happened, like, a thread that runs through all of them, too, is making your work visible. And like you said, maybe you have to challenge yourself to something that scares you a little bit in order to have the accountability to put yourself out there. But nobody's going to know what you're capable of if you don't show them. No one is going to know what your unique lens is on the world or your voice is unless you share that voice. And so, yeah, I mean, I think so many good things have come in our career and business and lives from having the courage to put our stuff out there.

[00:55:04] Jason: Yeah, absolutely. All right. Do you have an awesome one that you want to end on? Okay, so we got a shake of the head no. Because you don't, let's wrap it up there, because we're already at an hour. The stories went longer than I expected that they would.

[00:55:16] Caroline: Well, it's. It's a 200th episode.

[00:55:19] Jason: It's 200 memories packed into five stories, is what it ended up being. But, yeah, I wanted to end this because I didn't want to get too long. I wanted to kind of finish things up just by saying thank you to people who've listened. We know there's so many of you who've listened from the very beginning of this podcast. Some of you go back to a previous podcast that we had together. Some of you go back to, like, my first podcast with Paul Jarvis back in 2014 days. You know, some of you have been around for a long time. Some of you are brand new. And this is, like, maybe the first episode that you clicked into to be like, what is this show? Someone sent this to me. Um, and I do think that it's really important to... for us to always remember. Like, we sit down, we record, we share these thoughts, we do this stuff, but, like, there are real people on the other side who are living their lives, doing their dishes, bringing us along on that journey, and we don't take that for granted. It's very fun to know that, like, I listen to podcasts, and I feel a certain connection to people, that kind of parasocial relationship. And I know that a lot of you feel that same way for us, and. And we really do appreciate it. Every email that comes through, we absolutely cherish. We love your thoughts, your ideas. If you leave a review, if you leave a rating, we are seeing those. We are appreciative of them. I don't even know how much they matter anymore. But it is something that we do feel very grateful for because it does help, you know, those little algorithms put our show or tiny podcast in front of other people. So I just want to say thank you, because 200 episodes of something. It's a long time to be continuing to do this on a weekly basis, even with breaks. And I think we still have fun with it. We still want to do it. We might change up things here to have a new season of what the podcast feels like. Yeah. To keep it interesting for us, but we wouldn't have a podcast if there weren't people listening to it.

[00:56:52] Caroline: Thanks for following along as we went from Wandering Aimfully The Show to What Is It All For? to now Growing Steady. Those of you who have been around for every era and iteration and, you know, like Jason said, we're just immensely grateful and we hope to continue in many more eras to come to bring you just our perspective and hopefully some encouraging words and helpful tips on making your way as a creative business owner in this world.

[00:57:19] Jason: Do you think if we go do a video podcast, we could also clip in a segment that's of me baking? So people could actually get to enjoy and see...? 

[00:57:27] Caroline: Maybe... A little bake and break. A break...

[00:57:30] Jason: Bake and break?

[00:57:31] Caroline: A break and bake.

[00:57:32] Jason: A break and bake. No one has ever used that before. All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening to our 200th episode of this podcast. 

[00:57:40] Caroline: We'll be here next week.

[00:57:41] Jason: Here's to 2000 more and will be in your ears for decades to come. Okay.

[00:57:46] Caroline: Okay.

[00:57:46] Jason: All right, bye.